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Old 09-14-2019, 05:38 PM
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Two future resurrections?

For anyone who thinks there is a period of centuries after the second coming when a resurrection occurs to take people to the white throne....

Is the resurrection of 1 Cor 15:23 the same one as that in 1 Cor 15:54?

1 Corinthians 15:23.. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


1 Corinthians 15:54.. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
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Old 09-14-2019, 06:18 PM
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Re: Two future resurrections?

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
For anyone who thinks there is a period of centuries after the second coming when a resurrection occurs to take people to the white throne....

Is the resurrection of 1 Cor 15:23 the same one as that in 1 Cor 15:54?

1 Corinthians 15:23.. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


1 Corinthians 15:54.. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
I'll post more later when I get to my laptop, but the short answer is this: Death is swallowed up in victory whenever a person is resurrected into immortality. Christ defeated death upon His resurrection, for Him death was swallowed up in victory. When we resurrect into immortality, it will be factually and experientially true for us. As to a Millennium between the first resurrection and the second death, I don't think these two particular verses determine yea or nay either way on THAT subject. I think other passages must be examined to come to a whole-Bible conclusion.
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Old 09-14-2019, 06:34 PM
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Re: Two future resurrections?

If you take the amillennial view point, then the dead in Christ are raised in first resurrection and are reigning with him during the thousand years.

Those who are die in Christ not only reign with him in this life, but also in heaven until the end of this age. (this is the first resurrection.)

At the end of the age, those who die estranged from Christ are raised to faced the white throne judgement and the second death.

************

If you take the millennium as a separate age from our current one, Then the dead in Christ sleep in the dust of the earth with no consciousness, to be raised to reign for the millennium while the dead estranged from Christ rise after the 1000 years to face the white throne judgment.

************

Quote:
Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Last edited by Amanah; 09-14-2019 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 09-14-2019, 06:57 PM
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Re: Two future resurrections?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
If you take the amillennial view point, then the dead in Christ are raised in first resurrection and are reigning with him during the thousand years.

Those who are die in Christ not only reign with him in this life, but also in heaven until the end of this age. (this is the first resurrection.)

At the end of the age, those who die estranged from Christ are raised to faced the white throne judgement and the second death.

************

If you take the millennium as a separate age from our current one, Then the dead in Christ sleep in the dust of the earth with no consciousness, to be raised to reign for the millennium while the dead estranged from Christ rise after the 1000 years to face the white throne judgment.

************
Thanks... Can you give an answer to my question about the verse 23 resurrection and the verses 54 resurrection?

Postmill teaches the first resurrection is saints ruling now on earth -- as I believe.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:07 PM
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Re: Two future resurrections?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Thanks... Can you give an answer to my question about the verse 23 resurrection and the verses 54 resurrection?

Postmill teaches the first resurrection is saints ruling now on earth -- as I believe.
Just to clarify, postmil teaches a Millennium of Gospel supremacy among the nations, which hasn't started yet.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:19 PM
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Re: Two future resurrections?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Just to clarify, postmil teaches a Millennium of Gospel supremacy among the nations, which hasn't started yet.
There are variations, with some post-mils giving the best amil statements there are, and vice versa.

But a spiritual rule on earth for Rev 20's first resurrection is a post-mill concept, and that has started now.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:23 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Two future resurrections?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Thanks... Can you give an answer to my question about the verse 23 resurrection and the verses 54 resurrection?

Postmill teaches the first resurrection is saints ruling now on earth -- as I believe.
I'm trying to work through it in light of Rev 20. My first post must be wrong. All the dead in Christ must still be sleeping in Christ. I need to think about it.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:43 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post

I'm trying to work through it in light of Rev 20. My first post must be wrong. All the dead in Christ must still be sleeping in Christ. I need to think about it.
Actually rev 20 should be based on the plain teachings, on the light of 1 cor 15 etc. Not vice versa.

Keep in mind that John saw three groups in rev 20. First, people on thrones. Then those beheaded and then those who resisted the mark. I claim that refers to Salvation. Rom 6:13 resurrection.

What do you think Paul's words about being absent from the body to be present with the Lord means?
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Last edited by mfblume; 09-14-2019 at 09:09 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-15-2019, 01:27 PM
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Re: Two future resurrections?

Post mill concept of the first resurrection.

John first saw a certain "THEY" who sat on thrones.

Revelation 20:4.. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The only ones on thrones in Rev so far were the 24 elders.

Revelation 4:4.. And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

The church is comprised of kings and priests seated with Christ in heavenly places. Rev 1:6; 5:9-10; Eph 2:6.

We are a ROYAL (kingship term) PRIESTHOOD (priestly term).

24 elders are the 12 Old Testament category together with the 12 New Testament grouping - 12 tribes and 12 apostles.

THEN a group of those beheaded for the testimony of Jesus. Very similar to what the fifth seal of souls under the altar says to us.
Revelation 6:9.. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

..Rev 20:3 and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
A for of the same Greek word BEHEADED is used ONLY in the New Testament in reference to John the Baptist who was beheaded, and was last of the Old Testament prophets, and greatest of them all. John summed up all what the prophets before were and pointed to... Jesus. Law and prophets were until John. So, his death by beheading is perfect as a picture of the Old Testament saints who looked for Christ, to whom the law pointed them.

Those seated on thrones as the church, and the Old Testament saints pictured by the deceased allusion to the Prophets, especially John the Baptist, are TOGETHER saved and in the first resurrection of SALVATION which is what atonement of Christ provided when Christ entered heaven's holiest itself at His ascension.

We rise to walk in newness of life, the first resurrection, when we get saved, which is the same new life the Old Testament saints got when Christ redeemed them as well as us when He made atonement in Heaven's holiest of holies.

Look how Jesus spoke of the ALL the prophets and Law...

O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” And beginning with Moses and from all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures. (Luke 24:25-27)

This makes Old Testament saints fall under the category... "and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,"

WITNESS OF JESUS.
Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. (Acts 10:43)

Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called as an apostle,set apart for the Gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures concerning His Son . . . . (Rom. 1:1-3)

But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. (Rom. 3:21-22)
The ones who rule on thrones also includes the ones in John's day who resisted the mark of the beast.

Man lived on just short of 1,000 years before the flood. The longest was Methuselah, 969.

1000 speaks of a kingdom to last beyond anything man could ever do. Man could never reach it. But Jesus would bring it. Israel's kingdom would have lasted FOR EVER if man obeyed God.

It's like the mark of the beast 666 compared to God's fullness 777, just falling short. MAN's number is six from the sixth day of creation. Neb's image was 6 cubits by 60. Goliath was 6 cubits and a span (man's hand width), and the mail on his armour literally in Hebrew means scales like Leviathan.

Jesus would be the ONLY ONE to do it.
2 Samuel 7:12-13.. And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. ..(13).. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
The thousand years just speaks of Jesus' everlasting kingdom. THOUSAND is typical of a huge number, as the cattle on a THOUSAND HILLS, and we know God owns more hills than literally 1000.
__________________
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"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."

Last edited by mfblume; 09-15-2019 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 09-15-2019, 07:53 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Two future resurrections?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Post mill concept of the first resurrection.

John first saw a certain "THEY" who sat on thrones.

Revelation 20:4.. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The only ones on thrones in Rev so far were the 24 elders.

Revelation 4:4.. And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

The church is comprised of kings and priests seated with Christ in heavenly places. Rev 1:6; 5:9-10; Eph 2:6.

We are a ROYAL (kingship term) PRIESTHOOD (priestly term).

24 elders are the 12 Old Testament category together with the 12 New Testament grouping - 12 tribes and 12 apostles.

THEN a group of those beheaded for the testimony of Jesus. Very similar to what the fifth seal of souls under the altar says to us.
Revelation 6:9.. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

..Rev 20:3 and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
A for of the same Greek word BEHEADED is used ONLY in the New Testament in reference to John the Baptist who was beheaded, and was last of the Old Testament prophets, and greatest of them all. John summed up all what the prophets before were and pointed to... Jesus. Law and prophets were until John. So, his death by beheading is perfect as a picture of the Old Testament saints who looked for Christ, to whom the law pointed them.

Those seated on thrones as the church, and the Old Testament saints pictured by the deceased allusion to the Prophets, especially John the Baptist, are TOGETHER saved and in the first resurrection of SALVATION which is what atonement of Christ provided when Christ entered heaven's holiest itself at His ascension.

We rise to walk in newness of life, the first resurrection, when we get saved, which is the same new life the Old Testament saints got when Christ redeemed them as well as us when He made atonement in Heaven's holiest of holies.

Look how Jesus spoke of the ALL the prophets and Law...

O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” And beginning with Moses and from all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures. (Luke 24:25-27)

This makes Old Testament saints fall under the category... "and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,"

WITNESS OF JESUS.
Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. (Acts 10:43)

Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called as an apostle,set apart for the Gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures concerning His Son . . . . (Rom. 1:1-3)

But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. (Rom. 3:21-22)
The ones who rule on thrones also includes the ones in John's day who resisted the mark of the beast.

Man lived on just short of 1,000 years before the flood. The longest was Methuselah, 969.

1000 speaks of a kingdom to last beyond anything man could ever do. Man could never reach it. But Jesus would bring it. Israel's kingdom would have lasted FOR EVER if man obeyed God.

It's like the mark of the beast 666 compared to God's fullness 777, just falling short. MAN's number is six from the sixth day of creation. Neb's image was 6 cubits by 60. Goliath was 6 cubits and a span (man's hand width), and the mail on his armour literally in Hebrew means scales like Leviathan.

Jesus would be the ONLY ONE to do it.
2 Samuel 7:12-13.. And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. ..(13).. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
The thousand years just speaks of Jesus' everlasting kingdom. THOUSAND is typical of a huge number, as the cattle on a THOUSAND HILLS, and we know God owns more hills than literally 1000.
This sounds like amillennialism, not postmillennialism. Just saying, it's a minor point, no big deal.
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