I dont wanna be that guy but...Im feeling convicte

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Who is Santa Claus: By Lady SpringWolf

As we pagans already know, many of today's Christmas celebrations are rooted in pagan practices. And Santa isn't an exception. The winter solstice is a time to celebrate the return of the sun following the shortest day in the year. It's no wonder the church adopted these holidays as the birth date of their Savior. But from ancient Celtic and Norse mythology we also enjoy such holiday traditions as holly and mistletoe (sacred to the druids), the yule log, and even Santa Claus in his aspects of Father Time, or Father Winter, or the Holly King as part of our Yule History.

The Pagan Origins: Norse God Odin by Georg von RosenWe have to go back a bit find the pagan legend and myth associated with Santa. One of the first places to start is with the Germanic people and the Norse God Odin. The 13th Century Poetic Edda is a complication of stories and poems from Scandinavian history, some as early 985AD. In this work and from Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda we learn about Odin riding an eight-legged horse named Sleipnir, that can leap great distances. At Yule, Odin leads a great hunting party through the sky in celebration. This story gives rise to comparisons of Santa and his 8 reindeer flying through the sky.

In some traditions of Odin's Yule time ride, children could place their boots near the chimney filled with treats for Sleipnir and Odin would reward them for their kindness with food, candy or gifts. The tradition still continues Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands. In other Germanic countries the practice has been replaced with hanging stockings.


http://paganspath.com/magik/yule-history2.htm

It's important to remember that pagans aren't always the best people to turn to for information. Imagine that. They want to discredit anything Christian, and draw attention to their paganism. Of course, most interestingly, CHRISTIANS are the first people to believe what pagans say! LOL

This pagan is telling a half-truth. Yes, the Norse did honor Odin during Yule. Yes, traditions honoring Odin continued among the Scandinavian and Germanic peoples in folk customs and traditions long into the 10th century. However, while this was happening in central Europe... the traditions associated with St. Nicholas was spreading through the Mediterranean and into central Europe.

These traditions collided and were blended by the Scandinavian and Germanic peoples. This is where St. Nicholas began to take on the more "fanciful" traits that boarder on the mythological.

As for the pagan's embellishment of the 8 reindeer, the pagan is not telling the truth. The first reference to Santa's sleigh being pulled by a reindeer (a single reindeer) appears in Old Santeclaus with Much Delight, an illustrated children's poem published in New York in 1821. It wasn't until 1823 when a poem by Clement C. Moore "A Visit from St. Nicholas" (also known as "'Twas the Night Before Christmas") featured 8 reindeer and is largely credited for the contemporary Christmas lore that includes eight reindeer. In addition, in 1939 Rudolph was added to the mix as part of a promotional children's book to boost sales.

The pagan WANTS people to believe that Christianity is just a hodge podge of paganism. Why? To discredit the Christian faith and tradition.

The tomb of St. Nicholas, the ruins of the church of Myra where he served, and the custom of honoring his generosity date back to the 300's and 400's. Almost 500 years before the earliest stories recorded in the Poetic Edda. Most don't realize it, but Bishop Nicholas (aka St. Nicholas) was listed as being present on the attendance rolls from the council of Nicea in 325 AD. In fact, he was even reprimanded by the council after assaulting Arius for denying the deity of Christ. Bishop Nicholas was extremely passionate about Christ's divinity! LOL

There is something interesting about Nicholas in Nicea. Though Nicholas was present at the council of Nicea... and believed in Christ's deity... his name is missing from the list of Bishops who affirmed the doctrine of the Trinity. If Nicholas believed in Christ's deity enough to assault Arius... but didn't affirm the Trinity... that leaves us with a very interesting possibility. Nicholas might have been a Modalist. And if anyone knows the history of Modalism... Myra was known as a place where Modalistic thought flourished. Yes, it is entirely possible that St. Nicholas was a Modalist. If so, that would make "Santa Claus" an Apostolic.

This pagan is only telling half of the story.

[aegsm76]

I am amazed at how some of those who reject spiritual teaching on "standards" are all up in the air about Christmas celebrations.
Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Anyway.
Just tell me how many of you have re-named the days of the week?
Just go read Romans 14 and think about it relating to this.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

I think you're confused on how pagans used them.

It was a kind of transferrence magic where the evergreens power to defeat death and dark spirits*because they believed that when the days were shorter and leaves fell it was a result of dark powers getting stronger.*

So they believed that if they brought the trees inside, they would benefit from that power.

They also burned the pinestraw and cones as incense.

But obviously im overreacting....guess Ill just go get me a "Keep Saturn in Saturnalia" T-shirt.

Well, since I am not a superstitious pagan, I won't bring a tree into my house in hopes of something magical happening I'll do it as a seasonal decoration. So yes, you are giving credence to superstition.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's important to remember that pagans aren't always the best people to turn to for information. Imagine that. They want to discredit anything Christian, and draw attention to their paganism. Of course, most interestingly, CHRISTIANS are the first people to believe what pagans say! LOL

This pagan is telling a half-truth. Yes, the Norse did honor Odin during Yule. Yes, traditions honoring Odin continued among the Scandinavian and Germanic peoples in folk customs and traditions long into the 10th century. However, while this was happening in central Europe... the traditions associated with St. Nicholas was spreading through the Mediterranean and into central Europe.

These traditions collided and were blended by the Scandinavian and Germanic peoples. This is where St. Nicholas began to take on the more "fanciful" traits that boarder on the mythological.

As for the pagan's embellishment of the 8 reindeer, the pagan is not telling the truth. The first reference to Santa's sleigh being pulled by a reindeer (a single reindeer) appears in Old Santeclaus with Much Delight, an illustrated children's poem published in New York in 1821. It wasn't until 1823 when a poem by Clement C. Moore "A Visit from St. Nicholas" (also known as "'Twas the Night Before Christmas") featured 8 reindeer and is largely credited for the contemporary Christmas lore that includes eight reindeer. In addition, in 1939 Rudolph was added to the mix as part of a promotional children's book to boost sales.

The pagan WANTS people to believe that Christianity is just a hodge podge of paganism. Why? To discredit the Christian faith and tradition.

The tomb of St. Nicholas, the ruins of the church of Myra where he served, and the custom of honoring his generosity date back to the 300's and 400's. Almost 500 years before the earliest stories recorded in the Poetic Edda. Most don't realize it, but Bishop Nicholas (aka St. Nicholas) was listed as being present on the attendance rolls from the council of Nicea in 325 AD. In fact, he was even reprimanded by the council after assaulting Arius for denying the deity of Christ. Bishop Nicholas was extremely passionate about Christ's divinity! LOL

There is something interesting about Nicholas in Nicea. Though Nicholas was present at the council of Nicea... and believed in Christ's deity... his name is missing from the list of Bishops who affirmed the doctrine of the Trinity. If Nicholas believed in Christ's deity enough to assault Arius... but didn't affirm the Trinity... that leaves us with a very interesting possibility. Nicholas might have been a Modalist. And if anyone knows the history of Modalism... Myra was known as a place where Modalistic thought flourished. Yes, it is entirely possible that St. Nicholas was a Modalist. If so, that would make "Santa Claus" an Apostolic.

This pagan is only telling half of the story.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I am amazed at how some of those who reject spiritual teaching on "standards" are all up in the air about Christmas celebrations.
Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Anyway.
Just tell me how many of you have re-named the days of the week?
Just go read Romans 14 and think about it relating to this.

The days of the week are not observed as religious custom. The issue isn't what people call December 25th, it's what people DO on that day. The Christmas traditions are pagan religious rites that have been somewhat watered down and given a Christian veneer, supposedly converted into a smorgasborg of worship offered to Christ.

Romans 14 has nothing to do with pagan holy days. "Flee from idolatry" (1 Corinthians 10:14) doesn't mean "adapt idolatry to the worship of God".

[Esaias]

Perhaps someone could post the Scriptures supporting the celebration of Christmas?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Perhaps someone could post the Scriptures supporting the celebration of Christmas?

Rom 14
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I am amazed at how some of those who reject spiritual teaching on "standards" are all up in the air about Christmas celebrations.
Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Anyway.
Just tell me how many of you have re-named the days of the week?
Just go read Romans 14 and think about it relating to this.

"Spiritual" teaching on standards? As in? Men shaving their beards in direct opposition to scripture? Lev. 19:27

"Spiritual" teaching of a women going to Hell because she trims her hair (even if it's still long) and reject the primary meaning of the teaching which is to put on a veil if they pray or prophesy in the meeting?

And YET.....its ok to promote the lie that Dec 25 is Christs birthday and join into pagan laced celebrations of it?

And all the while teach other denominations are Hell bound because they dont "love the truth".

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Well, since I am not a superstitious pagan, I won't bring a tree into my house in hopes of something magical happening I'll do it as a seasonal decoration. So yes, you are giving credence to superstition.

I look at it like birthday cake candles. Sure, they once had some pagan meaning. But today, it's all just decoration and cultural tradition. A Christian isn't better off or worse off for avoiding it or partaking in it.

Now, if we lived in a pagan nation with the majority of people worshipping the great Evergreen tree god, or something, that might be a little different. But most of these things have become so far removed from their pagan origin, the average person sees them as merely decorative.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The days of the week are not observed as religious custom. The issue isn't what people call December 25th, it's what people DO on that day. The Christmas traditions are pagan religious rites that have been somewhat watered down and given a Christian veneer, supposedly converted into a smorgasborg of worship offered to Christ.

Romans 14 has nothing to do with pagan holy days. "Flee from idolatry" (1 Corinthians 10:14) doesn't mean "adapt idolatry to the worship of God".

The days of the week are not a religious custom for Christians. But to a pagan, the days are represented by the names of pagan gods because it was on those days that those gods were honored. Whenever a Christian says, "Thursday", it can be argued that a Christian is acknowledging that Thor is the Lord of that day. However, like wreaths, Christmas trees, yadda, yadda, yadda, the names of the days of the week are so far removed from any form of religious practice in our culture, they are just what we've come to call them. Most don't even know that the days of the week are named after pagan gods. Much like most have no idea that decorating an evergreen tree in the home was a pagan rite.

One thing about the Christmas tree. The pagans originally hung the tree upside down in the home. Being upside down, it was believed to pour into the home life giving magic. Also, the triangular shape was seen as being a symbol of the female matrix, a fertility symbol. It was decorated and celebrated as a life giving fertility symbol. However, in the 1500's, Christians took the tree and stood it upright, adorning the top of it with a star representing the star of Bethlehem. As such, it became a symbol of the tree of life. And decorated with light it represented the everlasting life offered in Christ Jesus.

If you took an ancient pagan and showed him what we do to the "Christmas tree" today, they'd say we were being sacrilegious to their gods. I'm cool with that. lol