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  #1  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:58 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Masada Mass suicide Myth

We all know the story of up to 900 Jews committing suicide in the Masada fortress as the Romans closed in. But archaeological and forensic science show that perhaps 30 Jewish rebels died there.

If such methods can be used to revise this historical event, then what other popular narratives might be called into question or revised using the same methods? Should we not rejoice that 900 men, women, and children did not perish as previously thought? Or will questioning the traditional Masada narrative cause us to be labeled anti-Semitic?
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:21 AM
Armapeet.Singh Armapeet.Singh is offline
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Re: Masada Mass suicide Myth

Links please.
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:37 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Masada Mass suicide Myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armapeet.Singh View Post
Links please.

This is one of dozens. It is worth the time it will take for you to research the topic...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/maybe-...ions-a-legend/

Last edited by Originalist; 12-09-2019 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:28 AM
Armapeet.Singh Armapeet.Singh is offline
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Re: Masada Mass suicide Myth

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
This is one of dozens. It is worth the time it will take for you to research the topic...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/maybe-...ions-a-legend/
I checked out the link, this says nothing other than, maybe it didn't happen the way Josephus says it did.

Maybe Josephus was just being used by the Flavian family and Rome.

Everything in the article was at he best, supposition and opinion.

There is nothing wrong with questioning but there needs to be more than what this article gives.

I don't agree with everything that Josephus was attributed with but, as the article states, it is the only witness. That gives more credence to Josephus than to a woman, 1900 years later, looking for her own glory.

The very statement that Josephus was was there and writes it down this way is tremendous weight on his narration. Yes, history is written by the victor but there is history of a mass suicide there at masada. Is it 10, 20 or hundreds? An eyewitness said it was hundreds.

Her questioning the eyewitness account of a witness is weak at best.
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Old 12-09-2019, 01:11 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Masada Mass suicide Myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armapeet.Singh View Post
I checked out the link, this says nothing other than, maybe it didn't happen the way Josephus says it did.

Maybe Josephus was just being used by the Flavian family and Rome.

Everything in the article was at he best, supposition and opinion.

There is nothing wrong with questioning but there needs to be more than what this article gives.

I don't agree with everything that Josephus was attributed with but, as the article states, it is the only witness. That gives more credence to Josephus than to a woman, 1900 years later, looking for her own glory.

The very statement that Josephus was was there and writes it down this way is tremendous weight on his narration. Yes, history is written by the victor but there is history of a mass suicide there at masada. Is it 10, 20 or hundreds? An eyewitness said it was hundreds.

Her questioning the eyewitness account of a witness is weak at best.
Again, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Just research it. And i must disagree with you on "eyewitnesses'. Ballistics is a more reliable evidence that so-called eyewitnesses.
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Old 12-09-2019, 11:31 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Masada Mass suicide Myth

Where did you find the information?
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Old 12-10-2019, 03:39 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Masada Mass suicide Myth

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Where did you find the information?
I initially discovered it last year in graduate school while researching this topic for a paper. I simply could not ignore the data. It was disappointing to think such a romanticized story might be false.
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Old 12-10-2019, 08:43 AM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
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Re: Masada Mass suicide Myth

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
I initially discovered it last year in graduate school while researching this topic for a paper. I simply could not ignore the data. It was disappointing to think such a romanticized story might be false.
Orig - do you have more info than was on the link?
I could find no "hard" data there.
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:02 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Masada Mass suicide Myth

There are so many things that were witnessed by people even in the Bible, but Science and Archeology says that didn’t happen. The OT is full of those.

Sometimes is better to trust witness testimonies, especially if it comes from more than one, and are proven to have integrity, than Science and Archeology.

I am not saying we should trust the only testimony we have from Josephus but what I am saying is that the Archeology evidence has as much weight or even less than Josephus.

What if some bodies or remainings were removed by people or animals over time? What if many remainings were buried somewhere and they haven’t found yet?

Did you know that there is no archeological evidence of the thousands of Israelites in the wilderness? How could it be that such a large group of people didnt leave any evidence or trash in the desert?

Last edited by coksiw; 12-10-2019 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:28 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Masada Mass suicide Myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
There are so many things that were witnessed by people even in the Bible, but Science and Archeology says that didnít happen. The OT is full of those.

Sometimes is better to trust witness testimonies, especially if it comes from more than one, and are proven to have integrity, than Science and Archeology.

I am not saying we should trust the only testimony we have from Josephus but what I am saying is that the Archeology evidence has as much weight or even less than Josephus.

What if some bodies or remainings were removed by people or animals over time? What if many remainings were buried somewhere and they havenít found yet?

Did you know that there is no archeological evidence of the thousands of Israelites in the wilderness? How could it be that such a large group of people didnt leave any evidence or trash in the desert?
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