What's the difference?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Did Jesus abstain from wine?

From Strong drink I'm sure he did. But otherwise if not it was because of lack of options, not because He was trying to drink with the drunkard's.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Anything can kill you in the wrong amounts, even water.

Dude it's the worst drug known to man.
https://sobernation.com/3-reasons-wh...angerous-drug/

I've been to rehab 5 times I learned a lot about drugs and alcohol. And Alcohol is the most dangerous drug ever known to man.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

From Strong drink I'm sure he did. But otherwise if not it was because of lack of options, not because He was trying to drink with the drunkard's.

Are those the only two options? that He either had nothing else to drink, or He was drinking with the drunkards?

What do you make of this passage?

Psalms 104:14-15
(14) He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
(15) And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Seems like this is saying that wine is something from God?

And, why did Jesus turn water into wine? They had water available, so why did He work a miracle to produce wine? which apparently was some of the best wine the wedding guests ever had?

I'm just trying to understand how you reconcile those things with your statement that basically said if a person drinks a glass of wine they aren't an overcomer? I'm pretty sure Jesus was an overcomer?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Dude it's the worst drug known to man.
https://sobernation.com/3-reasons-wh...angerous-drug/

I've been to rehab 5 times I learned a lot about drugs and alcohol. And Alcohol is the most dangerous drug ever known to man.

I've known people who drank alcohol and never had any problems with it and were not drunkards, did not get drunk, etc. I've NEVER known a person who used meth who wasn't just as messed up as any heroin addict. I've never known anyone who was able to use cocaine without it destroying their lives unless they got off of it in time before they went off the cliff. I've never known anyone who used heroin "recreationally" or "casually" who didn;t make a mess of their lives as a result.

I could go on?

I don't think alcohol is itself "the most dangerous drug ever known to man".

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Are those the only two options? that He either had nothing else to drink, or He was drinking with the drunkards?

What do you make of this passage?

Psalms 104:14-15
(14) He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
(15) And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Seems like this is saying that wine is something from God?

And, why did Jesus turn water into wine? They had water available, so why did He work a miracle to produce wine? which apparently was some of the best wine the wedding guests ever had?

I'm just trying to understand how you reconcile those things with your statement that basically said if a person drinks a glass of wine they aren't an overcomer? I'm pretty sure Jesus was an overcomer?

Dude wine and Strong drink are 2 different things. Fermented wine, was not the good wine they are talking about.

At the wedding He definitely made new wine which wasn't fermented but was grape juice. It was a status symbol to have the freshest wine in those days, only poor destitute people drank fermented wine.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I've known people who drank alcohol and never had any problems with it and were not drunkards, did not get drunk, etc. I've NEVER known a person who used meth who wasn't just as messed up as any heroin addict. I've never known anyone who was able to use cocaine without it destroying their lives unless they got off of it in time before they went off the cliff. I've never known anyone who used heroin "recreationally" or "casually" who didn;t make a mess of their lives as a result.

I could go on?

I don't think alcohol is itself "the most dangerous drug ever known to man".

It's effects of dependence are though. If you build up a dependence to it, it will do you much worse then heroin.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Dude wine and Strong drink are 2 different things. Fermented wine, was not the good wine they are talking about.

At the wedding He definitely made new wine which wasn't fermented but was grape juice. It was a status symbol to have the freshest wine in those days, only poor destitute people drank fermented wine.

John 2:1-10
(1) And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
(2) And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
(3) And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
(4) Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
(5) His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
(6) And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
(7) Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
(8) And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
(9) When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
(10) And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

I don't see any reference to "new wine" here?

Acts 2:13
(13) Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Acts 2:15
(15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

How do you get "full" of unfermented "new wine" and act out of the ordinary? Such that people would think you were drunk?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

It's effects of dependence are though. If you build up a dependence to it, it will do you much worse then heroin.

Are you talking about withdrawal symptoms? Because in that case certain barbiturates and certain other tranquilisers and sedatives are far worse than alcohol. Not to mention SSRIs like Prozac.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Are you talking about withdrawal symptoms? Because in that case certain barbiturates and certain other tranquilisers and sedatives are far worse than alcohol. Not to mention SSRIs like Prozac.

I'm saying there is only 2 drugs that will kill you in a detox Benzodiazepine and Alcohol. The others may make you sick and you may die from choking on vomit, but you won't die from the symptoms of not having the drug itself. These are the only 2 drugs that will do that. And barbiturates are pretty much a relic they are pretty much banned in America.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

John 2:1-10
(1) And the third day there was a marriageable in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
(2) And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
(3) And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
(4) Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
(5) His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
(6) And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
(7) Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
(8) And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
(9) When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
(10) And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

I don't see any reference to "new wine" here?

Acts 2:13
(13) Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Acts 2:15
(15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

How do you get "full" of unfermented "new wine" and act out of the ordinary? Such that people would think you were drunk?

I've been to prison you ever seen someone make hooch(wine)? It takes some time to ferment, not long like 2 to 3 days, but what Jesus made was fresh off the press. New wine could be what you didn't let age, which would be 2 or 3 days. But I was referring to the wine was new, not calling it new wine which we can tell in the scripture is referring to Strong Drink.