If You Are A Disciple

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by 1 God

I will fill in the blank with Melchizedek. Abraham gave him tithes. Jesus was his type. The pastor is Jesus’ type. The pastor gets tithes by default.

Wait until Tithemeister reads this......

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Warning! Train starting to go off the tracks!

Bwahahaha

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by diakonos

The pastor is a type of Jesus??

Did I read that correctly?

Originally Posted by 1 God

I will fill in the blank with Melchizedek. Abraham gave him tithes. Jesus was his type. The pastor is Jesus’ type. The pastor gets tithes by default.

[QUOTE=Nicodemus1968;1605245]Wait until Tithemeister reads this......


I have read it already. It is really a sad commentary on the reality that pastors have successfully misled the sheeple to believe that they are entitled to tithes. Aaaand by the way, NOT the tithe that is described in the Bible, but a new, improved tithe that is rendered in money instead of food. It took nearly two thousand years to twist the scripture incrementally and make people believe this heresy. It is a fraud that makes Bernie Madoff appear like a penny ante hustler. But good luck getting most pastors to admit it.

Meanwhile I am patiently waiting for a scriptural reference in the new or Old Testament that says a pastor is entitled to tithing because he is a pastor. I’ve seen scripture that says singers are entitled, widows, orphans and strangers (migrants) and of course, any Levites, but never a pastor. Odd isn’t it. Pastors say that only pastors are entitled. The scripture doesn’t mention them being entitled. Hmmmm

However, if you’d like to show me the chapter and verse, I’m listening.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

[QUOTE

I have read it already. It is really a sad commentary on the reality that pastors have successfully misled the sheeple to believe that they are entitled to tithes. Aaaand by the way, NOT the tithe that is described in the Bible, but a new, improved tithe that is rendered in money instead of food. It took nearly two thousand years to twist the scripture incrementally and make people believe this heresy. It is a fraud that makes Bernie Madoff appear like a penny ante hustler. But good luck getting most pastors to admit it.

Meanwhile I am patiently waiting for a scriptural reference in the new or Old Testament that says a pastor is entitled to tithing because he is a pastor. I’ve seen scripture that says singers are entitled, widows, orphans and strangers (migrants) and of course, any Levites, but never a pastor. Odd isn’t it. Pastors say that only pastors are entitled. The scripture doesn’t mention them being entitled. Hmmmm

However, if you’d like to show me the chapter and verse, I’m listening.

Sir , I know you love souls and you would do anything to see the Lord straighten out this mess and continue the reformation on to perfection. I pray that you are instrumental in accomplishing this by the mighty hand of God. You are speaking from the heart of God.

[votivesoul]

John 18:36 (NASB),

36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

Many believers of all strips and tendencies, take this verse of Scripture, and use it as a denunciation of this world, as if to say, since Christ's Kingdom is not of this world, and since we are to seek the Kingdom of God first, and anything that is called worldly in the Scriptures is carnal and not to be sought, that somehow then, this world is likewise evil and not worth fighting for, and we're just passing through until we die or until Jesus returns.

I submit to you, that is a mistake based on an incorrect understanding of this verse. I will demonstrate:

The Greek text for "My kingdom is not of this world..." is as follows:

Ἡ βασιλεία ἡ ἐμὴ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου...

Transliterated, it reads:

Hē basileia hē emē ouk estin ek tou kosmou toutou...

Translated literally and syntactically, it reads like this:

The kingdom the My not is of the world this...

The key phrase for this lesson is "ek tou". The Greek preposition "ek" doesn't really just mean "of", not in the fullest sense. Rather, it means "out of" or "from", suggesting or denoting source and place of origin. Next, the Greek article "tou" is in the genitive case, and rightly so, since the genitive case refers to source, origin, or possession, as in pertaining to.

We see then that the Kingdom of the Lord Jesus does not find its origin in, is not sourced from, and does not belong to, this world, or as you can see from the Greek, this cosmos.

The Greek word kosmos refers to the arranged order of things, up to and including the entire universe. In John 18:36, it refers to the world system of man. Christ's Kingdom then, is not a human construct, thus making it unlike any other kingdom this world has ever known. It is a spiritual kingdom, a kingdom of the heart and mind. Renewal and transformation must precede entrance. This is what it means to be born again.

However, it does not mean that if you are in Christ's Kingdom and operating under the laws and commands that govern it, that you are somehow exempt from participating, even living, in this world.

Note a portion from the Lord's prayer: Your Kingdom come, you will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven.

This phrase does not simply mean that we should pray that God's will is done on earth just as it is done in heaven. Although important, even crucial, the context is, is that we should pray that God's kingdom come to earth and exist and operate here, in this world, as much as it does in the realm of the Spirit, that is, in heaven.

The goal of the Christian faith is not merely to save yourself and perhaps a few others, then check-out when your time is up. Rather, it is a long-game mission of entire world transformation.

Why preach the Gospel to all creatures? Why teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that Christ has commanded us, if the point was not to secure THIS world for the cause of Christ, and to bring His Kingdom here, to earth?

Is the glory of YHVH supposed to cover the earth as the waters cover the seas? We are a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and it is our duty to bring about and effect spiritual change in the hearts and minds of those who will receive us as we have received Christ.

Not so we can all just hold on long enough until we bite the dust and kick off of the planet, never to be seen again this side of Eternal Life, but so that we can be an uncontrolled by human hands force to be reckoned with, to repair and restore this broken, sin-sick world.

Less than this, and we find ourselves desiring to bring earth to heaven, and not the other way 'round.

You are the chosen ones, dear brothers and sisters. And so, if not you, then who?

Tikkun Olam 2021.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/18-36.htm

https://biblehub.com/greek/1537.htm

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
(Rom 4:13-16)

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
(Gal 3:7-9)

But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
(Mic 4:1-5)

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Although I'm not sure why you are signing your posts with "Tikkun Olam 2021". I am sure you are aware of the history and usage of the term tikkun olam, so I'll not belabour it. It just seems... strange... to me.

The short version is I am appropriating the term for my own uses.

Yes, I am familiar with it's history and usage, and while many different views and interpretations over the years have come and gone within Judaic circles, I find the primary essence of the idea, to repair the world, to be sound.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Social justice?

That is a more modern, reformed Jewish definition.

However, there is such a thing as Biblical social justice, something about the Law and the Prophets and Writings were chiefly concerned. All the commandments regarding the poor, widows, orphans, migrants, neighbors, farming, wages, the military, humane treatment of animals, and even the Sabbath itself, is a concern for social justice or righteousness.

Not in the woke sense, but in the way God orders in the Word.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The short version is I am appropriating the term for my own uses.

[votivesoul]

An eschatological question:

When did the so-called "end of the world" take place?

Answer:

Hebrews 9:26 (KJV),

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The so-called "end of the world" occurred when Jesus died on the cross, that is, when He appeared to put away sin by sacrificing Himself, circa 33AD.

How is this possible? The key is understanding the Greek behind the phrase "end of the world". It is as follows:

...συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων (synteleia tōn aiōnōn)...

See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/heb...bG0FDKfBb4_Vz4

In fact, wherever in the King James Version of the Bible the phrase "end of the world" exists, you will find the Greek phrase above. So, what does "...συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων (synteleia tōn aiōnōn)..." mean?

It means "the consummation of the age/s" (sometimes the last word is found in the singular, sometimes in the plural).

One key place you can find this phrase is in Matthew 24:3 (KJV):

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Many millions of Christians over the years have believed and insisted that Matthew 24 is a long-term, even far future prophecy of the so-called end of the world. But note the Greek used here in Matthew 24:3:

...συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος (synteleias tou aiōnos)...

See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/mat...kZKhPygmPzyvxE

It's the same phrase. The disciples didn't want to know anything about some far-flung concept of global, even planetary destruction. They were not concerned with the end of a "what", but rather, with the end of a "when". That "when" was the age in which THEY were living, that would come to an end. And Jesus told them plainly throughout the rest of the chapter: When the Romans destroy Jerusalem, in particular the temple, as happened 40 or so years later in 70 AD.

What does this mean for us today? It means the church needs a radically differently eschatological paradigm. Said more bluntly, it's high time believers got their head out of the news and back into the Book.

Ephesians 3:21 (KJV),

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Jesus is not glorified in the church through all ages, world without end, if He smashes to bits the planet and annihilates the people He came to save, the very ones He sacrificed Himself at the consummation of the ages nearly 20 centuries ago, to rescue and redeem. To think otherwise is to admit Christ is defeated, and that God cannot save to the uttermost all who come to Him through His Son, at least not everyone. Just some.

The truth is your world might end today. You've got enough to worry about without fearing some so-called always in the future but never seems to happen "end of the world" scenario that isn't taught in the Holy Scriptures.

And if you know these things, dear brothers and sisters, you might find the strength, courage, and resolve, to start putting things back together that have fallen apart, starting with the Tabernacle of David, that is, the Church, and then, you might find the strength, courage, and resolve to help the Lord Jesus save the world God loved enough to send His Son to, to bring it back from the dead.

Matthew 28:20 (KJV),

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world (unto the consummation of the age in Greek). Amen.

Tikkun Olam 2021.