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07-16-2014, 05:39 PM
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Strange in a Strange Land...
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Island
Posts: 5,512
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
I left. I have lost a lot of things. Mostly by my own doing or my choices. I don't follow the dress code. I don't follow a level of "holiness" that someone tells me to. I do not feel that services are any less "spirited" I do think they are much more authentic. Motion creates emotion and emotion creates lots of things. In the OP movement, especially the more conservative groups, there is a lot of peer pressure involved to "worship" and to do whatever you want to call it. Those that don't participate are often looked down on and even singled out. So, in that movement it is bettter to participate than to not. When I left, the people that I were around were free to worship how the chose. They had freedom from the peer pressure of "how long has it been since you talked in tongues" and it was true, pure and really geniuine. That is what I experienced. Maybe what you mentioned was a female thing. I have heard some women say similar things, but then again it could be due to them having had most of the peer pressure that they developed a bit of a Stockholm Syndrom thing.
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
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07-16-2014, 06:12 PM
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On the road less traveled
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shephard
I left. I have lost a lot of things. Mostly by my own doing or my choices. I don't follow the dress code. I don't follow a level of "holiness" that someone tells me to. I do not feel that services are any less "spirited" I do think they are much more authentic. Motion creates emotion and emotion creates lots of things. In the OP movement, especially the more conservative groups, there is a lot of peer pressure involved to "worship" and to do whatever you want to call it. Those that don't participate are often looked down on and even singled out. So, in that movement it is bettter to participate than to not. When I left, the people that I were around were free to worship how the chose. They had freedom from the peer pressure of "how long has it been since you talked in tongues" and it was true, pure and really geniuine. That is what I experienced. Maybe what you mentioned was a female thing. I have heard some women say similar things, but then again it could be due to them having had most of the peer pressure that they developed a bit of a Stockholm Syndrom thing.
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I agree with your comment Jack. Regarding the highlighted above, I would like to comment further.
At our local community's July 4th celebration, there was a country music band playing. There were many of the songs played that had me tapping my toes, and feeling like just moving to the music. I watched little kids, older kids, grandmas, grandpas, and actually people of all ages get out of their seats and begin to juke, and jive and dance around to this music. It just feels good. The beat, the rhythm, the talent of the singers... it was all a feel-good kinda thing. There was nothing about the Lord in any of the music, and yet I felt the same desire to get up and shockamoo a bit, just because shockamoo or dancing physically feels good.
I mentioned that experience to say this.... music stirs the emotions of the soul, and many times when those emotions are felt, one can be led to believe that they are "of God".... when they are simply pure fleshly emotions reacting to music, and have nothing whatsoever to do with worship.
There is a lot of "shockamoo" that goes on inside OP churches with whooping, hollering, shaking, twisting, screaming, and such... that many times is simply an emotional reaction to the music being played, much like my reaction to the good time country music show we saw on the 4th.
I challenge anyone the next time you are in a "red hot" praise break type service - Watch people when the music stops, and see how many people are still dancing the shockamoo. That ought to be an eye-opener for you. If something is true worship, then why does it stop when the music stops???
I personally think that other churches may not have so much of a "hoedown type worship" but instead have the kind of worship that is deep, genuine, and not emotionally, or musically charged.
The deepest and most wonderful life changing moments of worship that I have had with the Lord have not been in the "swingin' from the chandeliers" type service, but in the weeping, quiet, still place of an altar or a prayer closet.
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07-16-2014, 06:33 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord
I agree with your comment Jack. Regarding the highlighted above, I would like to comment further.
At our local community's July 4th celebration, there was a country music band playing. There were many of the songs played that had me tapping my toes, and feeling like just moving to the music. I watched little kids, older kids, grandmas, grandpas, and actually people of all ages get out of their seats and begin to juke, and jive and dance around to this music. It just feels good. The beat, the rhythm, the talent of the singers... it was all a feel-good kinda thing. There was nothing about the Lord in any of the music, and yet I felt the same desire to get up and shockamoo a bit, just because shockamoo or dancing physically feels good.
I mentioned that experience to say this.... music stirs the emotions of the soul, and many times when those emotions are felt, one can be led to believe that they are "of God".... when they are simply pure fleshly emotions reacting to music, and have nothing whatsoever to do with worship.
There is a lot of "shockamoo" that goes on inside OP churches with whooping, hollering, shaking, twisting, screaming, and such... that many times is simply an emotional reaction to the music being played, much like my reaction to the good time country music show we saw on the 4th.
I challenge anyone the next time you are in a "red hot" praise break type service - Watch people when the music stops, and see how many people are still dancing the shockamoo. That ought to be an eye-opener for you. If something is true worship, then why does it stop when the music stops???
I personally think that other churches may not have so much of a "hoedown type worship" but instead have the kind of worship that is deep, genuine, and not emotionally, or musically charged.
The deepest and most wonderful life changing moments of worship that I have had with the Lord have not been in the "swingin' from the chandeliers" type service, but in the weeping, quiet, still place of an altar or a prayer closet.
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Amen, I think the so called music ministry can be a huge distraction to the moving of the Holy Ghost. It is used often as "mood music", to manipulate our emotions. The only music that I have seen set the congregation on fire consistently, even with no music is old fashioned red book songs, that everyone sings together, resulting in praise and an explosion of worship. These song bring Holy Ghost joy. Some of the new song these days can be sung to a lover or God.
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07-16-2014, 06:50 PM
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On the road less traveled
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Amen, I think the so called music ministry can be a huge distraction to the moving of the Holy Ghost. It is used often as "mood music", to manipulate our emotions. The only music that I have seen set the congregation on fire consistently, even with no music is old fashioned red book songs, that everyone sings together, resulting in praise and an explosion of worship. These song bring Holy Ghost joy. Some of the new song these days can be sung to a lover or God.
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Yes indeed, and I think people more and more are beginning to realize just how much music controls our emotions, and what we think may be an emotional experience worshiping the Lord, may just be our emotions relating to the beat or tune of some music. There is a huge difference.
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07-17-2014, 06:00 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,073
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Amen, I think the so called music ministry can be a huge distraction to the moving of the Holy Ghost. It is used often as "mood music", to manipulate our emotions. The only music that I have seen set the congregation on fire consistently, even with no music is old fashioned red book songs, that everyone sings together, resulting in praise and an explosion of worship. These song bring Holy Ghost joy. Some of the new song these days can be sung to a lover or God.
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Amen a thousand times. But that message will get you excommunicated in most of our churches faster than if you tried to rebaptize everyone in the titles.
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07-16-2014, 06:34 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
I have lost things and gained things. I have grieved the things I have lost and praised the things I have gained. I have gained more than I have lost for leaving. I have no intention of going back. However, it is definitely a search and a sifting when a person leaves because you have to live by faith and make your own definitions, rather than having everything defined for you.
As for worship, I had attended an evangelical church for 4 years right after leaving UPC. At first, I felt that it wasn't as spirited. But later, I felt what was missing was hype and not, in fact, what we were led to believe was the Spirit of God. So, sifting and redefining are intense and what some will define as one way, another will define another way based on experiences both past and present.
There is a saying: Not all those who wander are lost.
Indeed.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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07-16-2014, 06:35 PM
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Repent and believe the Gospel!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,089
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
There is a saying: Not all those who wander are lost.
Indeed.
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__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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07-16-2014, 06:53 PM
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On the road less traveled
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
I have lost things and gained things. I have grieved the things I have lost and praised the things I have gained. I have gained more than I have lost for leaving. I have no intention of going back. However, it is definitely a search and a sifting when a person leaves because you have to live by faith and make your own definitions, rather than having everything defined for you.
As for worship, I had attended an evangelical church for 4 years right after leaving UPC. At first, I felt that it wasn't as spirited. But later, I felt what was missing was hype and not, in fact, what we were led to believe was the Spirit of God. So, sifting and redefining are intense and what some will define as one way, another will define another way based on experiences both past and present.
There is a saying: Not all those who wander are lost.
Indeed.
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INDEED! For me as well, there has been a huge sifting process going on, and having to separate the fish from the bones. There were so many wonderful things that we have accepted, right along with the "bones"... and it takes quite a while to pick and sift through all the bones.
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07-16-2014, 07:53 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord
INDEED! For me as well, there has been a huge sifting process going on, and having to separate the fish from the bones. There were so many wonderful things that we have accepted, right along with the "bones"... and it takes quite a while to pick and sift through all the bones.
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I was trying to explain this to a relative yesterday....one who has never been UPC. My extended family has judged my UPC experience, in my opinion, quite harshly, (in their opinion, rightly). This is something else I also have to deal with....they saw my judgmentalism and superiority, something I have long since regretted and repented of. However, to them, the whole thing was wrong. This is hard for me to accept.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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07-17-2014, 01:55 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,778
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Re: Those who left the Conservative Pentecostalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shephard
I left. I have lost a lot of things. Mostly by my own doing or my choices. I don't follow the dress code. I don't follow a level of "holiness" that someone tells me to. I do not feel that services are any less "spirited" I do think they are much more authentic. Motion creates emotion and emotion creates lots of things. In the OP movement, especially the more conservative groups, there is a lot of peer pressure involved to "worship" and to do whatever you want to call it. Those that don't participate are often looked down on and even singled out. So, in that movement it is bettter to participate than to not. When I left, the people that I were around were free to worship how the chose. They had freedom from the peer pressure of "how long has it been since you talked in tongues" and it was true, pure and really geniuine. That is what I experienced. Maybe what you mentioned was a female thing. I have heard some women say similar things, but then again it could be due to them having had most of the peer pressure that they developed a bit of a Stockholm Syndrom thing.
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Authentic?
Wayne? Is that you?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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