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  #211  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:04 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 KJV (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? (6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The subject is the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him. This is unquestionably what "the rapture" concept is about - the return of the Lord and our being gathered together with Him.

That day is not "at hand", meaning it is NOT IMMINENT. Pre trib rapture heresy claims the rapture is an "imminent" event, meaning it could happen AT ANY TIME.

That day shall NOT COME until and except there is FIRST the "apostasy" and the rise of the "man of sin". Furthermore, the "man of sin" is to be revealed BEFORE that day of the Lord's coming and our gathering together with Him takes place.

The man of sin is DESTROYED by the COMING OF THE LORD. There is obviously one coming of the Lord being discussed in this chapter, and it includes "our gathering together with Him". Thus, the pre trib nonsense about "first the rapture, then the visible coming of the Lord" is just that - nonsense.

The pre trib rapture heresy teaches that the Lord comes, and we are gathered together with Him, BEFORE the man of sin is on the scene. Furthermore, it teaches that we are gathered together to the Lord at some event OTHER than the coming of the Lord in which the man of sin is destroyed. Both of which are in direct contradiction to the plain and unambiguous statements of the apostle.

This is apostolic doctrine, as taught by an apostle. Pre trib rapture doctrine is NOT APOSTOLIC. It is no more apostolic than trinity idolatry, easy believism, sinner's prayerism, sprinkling, confession to a priest, or kissing the pope's ring.
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  #212  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:05 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

It just takes a few minutes to post this stuff.



This is really what you think, right?...



36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to GO THROUGH all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
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  #213  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:05 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Revelation 20:1-6 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The first resurrection occurs at the beginning of the thousand years. Satan is bound at the beginning of the thousand years. According to pre trib rapture heresy, the first resurrection occurs some 7 years before the thousand years begins. According to pre trib rapture heresy, satan is unopposed to run the earth into the ground via the beast and false prophet AFTER the first resurrection occurs.

Pre trib rapture heresy is a Biblical impossibility.
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  #214  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:06 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

EVERY SINGLE "PROOF TEXT" the rapturists use in support of their claim can be explained within a post trib rapture understanding.

But there are numerous proof texts used which prove a "post trib" resurrection of the saints that CANNOT BE HARMONIZED WITH THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE TEACHING.

Furthermore, there is NOT ONE SINGLE TEXT OF SCRIPTURE which actually states the pre trib doctrine. Just like the trinity doctrine, pre trib rapturism is based upon supposition, eisegesis, interpretation, opinion, and exegetical gymnastics. Whereas the truth is based upon the plain and simple declarations of the Scriptures where they speak on the very subject.
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  #215  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:08 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 KJV (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? (6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The subject is the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him. This is unquestionably what "the rapture" concept is about - the return of the Lord and our being gathered together with Him.

That day is not "at hand", meaning it is NOT IMMINENT. Pre trib rapture heresy claims the rapture is an "imminent" event, meaning it could happen AT ANY TIME.

That day shall NOT COME until and except there is FIRST the "apostasy" and the rise of the "man of sin". Furthermore, the "man of sin" is to be revealed BEFORE that day of the Lord's coming and our gathering together with Him takes place.

The man of sin is DESTROYED by the COMING OF THE LORD. There is obviously one coming of the Lord being discussed in this chapter, and it includes "our gathering together with Him". Thus, the pre trib nonsense about "first the rapture, then the visible coming of the Lord" is just that - nonsense.

The pre trib rapture heresy teaches that the Lord comes, and we are gathered together with Him, BEFORE the man of sin is on the scene. Furthermore, it teaches that we are gathered together to the Lord at some event OTHER than the coming of the Lord in which the man of sin is destroyed. Both of which are in direct contradiction to the plain and unambiguous statements of the apostle.

This is apostolic doctrine, as taught by an apostle. Pre trib rapture doctrine is NOT APOSTOLIC. It is no more apostolic than trinity idolatry, easy believism, sinner's prayerism, sprinkling, confession to a priest, or kissing the pope's ring.
You just are not getting it.

1st a sleeping bride called to meet Him in the clouds.

You think a drunken sleeping bride caught completely unaware is the product of near total annihilation of planet earth.

How silly.
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  #216  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:14 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Revelation 20:1-6 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The first resurrection occurs at the beginning of the thousand years. Satan is bound at the beginning of the thousand years. According to pre trib rapture heresy, the first resurrection occurs some 7 years before the thousand years begins. According to pre trib rapture heresy, satan is unopposed to run the earth into the ground via the beast and false prophet AFTER the first resurrection occurs.

Pre trib rapture heresy is a Biblical impossibility.
The first resurrection actually started 2000 years ago.



23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.



Verse 24 depicts the completion of the 1st resurrection.
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  #217  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:20 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

The wackiest doctrine I have seen in pentecost is post trib.


It depicts a world along with the church going through every seal and vial of wrath on the inhabitants of the earth, including the church. It teaches God and satan's wrath on the inhabitants of the world and the church, then concludes in this....



48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,



LOL
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  #218  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:26 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened....



5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.





Because they all died already?



LOL
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  #219  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:30 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Some people think "winning a debate is accomplished by sheer post count, who posts more wins!"

lol

Uh, sorry, not how it works.
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  #220  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:31 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

It's not that.

I have plenty of ammo other than screaming "HERESY"!!!
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