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  #51  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:43 PM
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TJJJ TJJJ is offline
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Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

Marijuana?
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  #52  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:45 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
IHOP does practice Acts 2:38 with baptism in the name of the LORD JESUS CHRIST and receiving the Holy Ghost baptism with tongues following.
I do not believe this is true. I say this only because there is nothing on ihop's website which backs this claim. Nor is there anything on Mike Bickle's website.

This guy who used to be the Evangelism Director at ihop has a video about being filled with the HG, but thus far in the video it is not a part of salvation, but occurs AFTER assurance of salvation. His own statement of faith states that assurance of salvation is at "trusting Christ as savior."

The lengthy post on baptism you posted even has that they should be baptized in the titles. So the part you put in all caps is incorrect.

Sorry, but I don't believe it.

Last edited by n david; 06-20-2018 at 06:48 PM.
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  #53  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:45 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Freudian Slip in the beginning?



I'm surprised they didn't edit that out. Hilarious.
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  #54  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:46 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
"In 2001, He became the Director of the Evangelism at the International House of Prayer, Kansas City. In 2015, he became the Founder and Director of Kansas City Evangelists' Fellowship."

The KCEF Statement of Faith says:
"8. The salvation of man is wholly a work of God's free grace and is not the work, in whole or in part, of human works or goodness or religious ceremony. God imputes His righteousness to those who put their faith in Christ alone for their salvation, and thereby justified them in His sight.

9. It is the privilege of all who are born again of the Spirit to be assured of their salvation from the very moment in which they trust Christ as their Savior. This assurance is not based upon any kind of human merit, but is produced by the witness of the Holy Spirit, who confirms in the believer the testimony of God in His written word.

10. The Holy Spirit has come into the world to reveal and glorify Christ and to apply the saving work of Christ to men. He convicts and draws sinners to Christ, imparts new life to them, continually indwells them from the moment of spiritual birth and seals them until the day of redemption. His fullness, power and control are appropriated in the believer's life by faith."

Nothing about new birth. Nothing about water baptism or receiving the HG.
Hal Linhardt
/
www.ihopkc.org/forerunnerevangelism
21
SCRIPTURAL REASONS FOR SPEAKING IN TONGUES
Adapted
from
A Handbook on Holy Spirit Baptism
by Don Basham
It may help to realize that there are
strong Biblical reasons
for speaking in tongues.
1. Speaking with tongues is the
unique
New Testament
spiritual gift
identified with the
Church of Jesus Christ.
Prior to the day of Pentecost, all other gifts, miracles and spiritual manifestations had been in evidence during
the Old Testament ti
mes.
On the Day of Pentecost, this new phenomenon came into evidence and became
uniquely identified with the Church (Acts 2:4 and I Corinthians, chapters 12
-
14).
2. Speaking with tongues was
ordained by God
for the Church
(I Corinthians 12:28,
14:21).
3. Speaking with tongues is a
specific fulfillment of prophecy
(Isaiah 28:11, I Corinthians 14:21, Joel 2:28
-
29,
Acts 2:16
-
18).
4. Speaking with tongues is
a sign OF the believer
(John 7:38, 39, Mark 16:17).
5. Speaking with tongues is
a sign TO the unbeliever
(I Corinthians 14:22).
6. Speaking with tongues is a
proof of the resurrection and glorification of Jesus Christ
(John 16:7, Acts 2:22
-
24,
32
-
33).
7. Speaking with tongu
es is an
evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit
(Acts 2:4, 10:45
-
46, 19:6).
8. Speaking with tongues is a
means of preaching to men of other languages
(Acts 2:6
-
11).
9. Speaking with tongues is a
spiritual gift for
building o
neself up spiritually
(I Corinthians 14:4).
10. Speaking with tongues is a
spiritual gift for spiritual edification of the Church
(I Corinthians 14:5).
11.
One who speaks in a tongue, in his spirit he
speaks mysteries to God
(1 Corinthians 14:2).
12. Speaking with tongues is a means by which the
Holy Spirit intercedes through us in prayer
(Romans 8:26, I
Corinthians 14:14).
13. Speaking with tongues is a spiritual gift for “
singing in the Spirit
” (I Corint
hians 14:15, Ephesians 5:18
-
19).
14. The
Apostle Paul was thankful
to God for the
privilege of speaking in tongues
(I Corinthians 14:18).
15. The
Apostle Paul desired
that all would speak with tongues (I Corinthians 14:5).
16.
Speaking with tongues is
one of the gifts of the Spirit
(I Corinthians 12:10).
17. The
Apostle Paul ordered
that speaking with tongues should not be forbidden (I Corinthians 14:39).
18. Isaiah prophetically
declares that
speaking with ton
gues
is
a “rest”
(Isaiah 28:12, I Corinthians 14:21).
19. Isaiah prophetically refers to speaking with tongues as
a “refreshing
” (Isaiah 28:12. I Corinthians 14:21).
20. Speaking with tongues follows as
a confirmation of the Word of God w
hen it is preached
(Mark 16:17, 20).
21. You
give thanks well to God
. (1 Corinthians 14:1
__________________________________________________ ______________

So yes again IHOP believes in the Holy Ghost with tongues. So they teach repenting, being baptized in water in Jesus name and receiving the Spirit baptism with tongues following.

So if one does this you are saying they are not born again?
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  #55  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:52 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
So yes again IHOP believes in the Holy Ghost with tongues. So they teach repenting, being baptized in water in Jesus name and receiving the Spirit baptism with tongues following.

So if one does this you are saying they are not born again?
First, KCEF is not ihop. It is separate from ihop. It's endorsed by ihop, but not ihop. So this isn't about what ihop believes anymore.

Second, none of what's Dan Basham's video I've been watching, nor in the pdf you posted connects the HG to salvation. It is referred to as "one of the gifts of the spirit."

Again, their statement of faith has nothing about baptism or receiving the HG. In fact, per the SOF, salvation is assured when "they trust Christ as their Savior."

"8. The salvation of man is wholly a work of God's free grace and is not the work, in whole or in part, of human works or goodness or religious ceremony. God imputes His righteousness to those who put their faith in Christ alone for their salvation, and thereby justified them in His sight.

9. It is the privilege of all who are born again of the Spirit to be assured of their salvation from the very moment in which they trust Christ as their Savior. This assurance is not based upon any kind of human merit, but is produced by the witness of the Holy Spirit, who confirms in the believer the testimony of God in His written word.

10. The Holy Spirit has come into the world to reveal and glorify Christ and to apply the saving work of Christ to men. He convicts and draws sinners to Christ, imparts new life to them, continually indwells them from the moment of spiritual birth and seals them until the day of redemption. His fullness, power and control are appropriated in the believer's life by faith."
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  #56  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:59 PM
n david n david is offline
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Posts: 17,803
Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

http://www.kcefellowship.org/filled-...ly-spirit.html

At 17:00 in, he talks about a church of Baptists of which he became Pastor. He states that about half were filled with the HG and it caused division. He goes on to talk of how he interviewed these people "who'd been saved for 20 years."

He doesn't believe in the new birth.
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  #57  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:07 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

ihop does not believe in Jesus name baptism, nor do they believe you must receive the HG. Their SOF proves this as false, as does the SOF for KCEF.

KCEF basically believes what most charismatics believe: that the HG is a cool toy you get after being assured of salvation, which comes when a person "accepts Christ as Savior."
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  #58  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:13 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
I do not believe this is true. I say this only because there is nothing on ihop's website which backs this claim. Nor is there anything on Mike Bickle's website.

This guy who used to be the Evangelism Director at ihop has a video about being filled with the HG, but thus far in the video it is not a part of salvation, but occurs AFTER assurance of salvation. His own statement of faith states that assurance of salvation is at "trusting Christ as savior."

The lengthy post on baptism you posted even has that they should be baptized in the titles. So the part you put in all caps is incorrect.

Sorry, but I don't believe it.
You are not reading anything I am saying. I never said they believe Acts 2:38 is the new birth. I said they teach repenting, being baptized in Jesus name and receiving the Holy Ghost baptism with tongues.

THEY PRACTICE ACTS 2:38.


I asked you and Dom if YOU BELIEVED if someone repents and is baptized in the name of Jesus and receives the Spirit baptism is born again to which Dom answered yes. I never saw an answer from you.

But now Dom and I suppose you have backed off that if one DOES Acts 2:38 they are born again.

BTW you can see Hal Linhardt baptizing someone in Jesus name in this thread.

You failed to read the article when you say they baptize in the titles.



NAME INTO WHICH THE BELIEVER IS BAPTIZED

A.The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

Matt. 28:19- 19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,


Name of Father: Lord.


Exodus 3:15; God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you ' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.

Exodus 15:3 "The LORD is a warrior; The LORD is His name.

Isa. 42:8 ”I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another,

Name of Son: Jesus.


Luke 1:31- “.. you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.”

John 17:6, 11, 12- 6" I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
11"I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. 12"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

Name of Holy Spirit: Christ (Messiah or Anointed One)



Matt. 3:16 16After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,

1 John 2:20,27 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.
27As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

Thus the triune name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit is interpreted in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, which is the name used in water baptism in the book of Acts.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

8:12, 16 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike. 16For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

__________________________________________________ ______________

So if you cant admit the obvious that they do baptize in Jesus name and teach the Spirit with tongues you must not want to see it.
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  #59  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:20 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

Here is what I said on page one.

Quote:
]And yes they lack the great truth of Oneness and Acts 2:38 as the new birth but I have been praying a long time for God to move in their midst to bring these things out, so what can I do but believe it will happen?
Go read it and then quit using a STRAW MAN ATTACK.

If you wish to condemn a group with thousands of young people who are being baptized in Jesus name and receiving the Spirit baptism and speaking in tongues you will do what you want. I understand.

I am passionate in prayer for them to go all the way. I never said they have arrived.
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  #60  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:24 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Prediction: The Charismatics Will Seek Holine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
So if you cant admit the obvious that they do baptize in Jesus name and teach the Spirit with tongues you must not want to see it.
Mike, most charismatics believe in the HG with tongues. I'm sure you know this. The baptism from the video posted previously had the titles pronounced.
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