7th Day Sabbath not for New Testament believers - Page 9

mfblume · #81 03-02-2019, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

A child can see that when an apostle says something is (presently) a shadow of (future) coming things, that whatever they are a shadow of cannot have already come. Well, a child who knows basic grammar, at least.

Now we are getting into, "No, I'm not. You are!"

You can do better than that.

mfblume · #82 03-02-2019, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

You complained about straw man arguments, yet I did not say YOU believe xyz which is wrong... when you never affirmed or supported xyz. I DID provide you and the readers with more information about some of the arguments you try to use, showing their historical and theological background.

But more to the point, your post quoted above IS INDEED a genuine strawman argument. I never asserted or affirmed that when Jesus said "My commandments" that He "must refer to the ten and no others." I said His commandments INCLUDE the ten commandments. They include EVERY COMMAND/TEACHING IN THE WORD OF GOD.

I would have thought you understood that.

The other straw man argument is your constant arguing against "flesh making flesh obey in one's own will power" (paraphrasing). I never suggested that, I don't know ANYBODY who would suggest that except deists and atheists and possibly some liberalised catholics (?), and in fact I have repeatedly shown how it is the HOLY GHOST that leads and empowers us to OBEY GOD'S LAWS, according to the Bible.

It's interesting why you do not respond to my claim that CHRIST distinguished his words from the couple commandments of the ten he referred to.

If you read a commandment in the ten and endeavour to make yourself keep it, then you are serving God in oldness of the letter. Do you deny you read the fourth commandment and make yourself obey it?

mfblume · #83 03-02-2019, 09:58 PM

..2 cor 5:17....Therefore if any man..be..in Christ,..he is..a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Everything about the work of Christ on the cross has to do with New Creation according to this verse. This includes the issue of Christ doing the work that the high priest could never finish and accomplished in Hebrews chapter 10. How could you deny this is a new creation? Being in Christ is what it's all about when Hebrews tells us to go boldly to the throne because of the blood that Jesus shed that remit our sins. It's making us new creatures, when it says there's remission of sins. The actual statement that Christ made a new creation on the cross is not necessary to be in the Bible, if the same thing is being stated in other words.

Esaias · #84 03-02-2019, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Heb 10:11.. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:..
Heb 10:12.. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..
Heb 10:13.. From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool...
Heb 10:14.. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified...

I must have missed the part about "new creation at the cross"...

mfblume · #85 03-02-2019, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

I must have missed the part about "new creation at the cross"...

exactly, because you're not putting together everything Paul taught on what Christ did when he finished the work. Look at 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 where it says we're New Creation, although the King James version says new creatures.

Are you saying there is no new creation work done when Christ finished the work and sat down at that right hand Throne after accomplishing his final sacrifice

Esaias · #86 03-02-2019, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You argue about it not being ritualistic, and then I say it is, so why say it is, anyway, now?

Where did I argue it was not ritualistic? Did I not post the dictionary definition of ritual? Or was that in the other thread?

mfblume · #87 03-02-2019, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Where did I argue it was not ritualistic? Did I not post the dictionary definition of ritual? Or was that in the other thread?

please clarify your thoughts, because all I was getting out of you was that it's not a ritual like none of the other Commandments in the Ten Commandments are rituals.

Esaias · #88 03-02-2019, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Now we are getting into, "No, I'm not. You are!"

You can do better than that.

You made the statement "even a child can see", and I agreed that even a child could see what Paul was saying, IF they had a basic grasp of grammar and understood the three basic tenses of past, present, and future.

You are eisegeting Paul's words into the past tense, whereas the actual text is present and future tense. I'm gonna stick with what's written.

mfblume · #89 03-02-2019, 10:08 PM

If you're saying that you have to have the words that the work of the Cross was an actual New Creation after which got rested, then how come you don't have to have the words in Revelation that Jesus is the Lamb with seven eyes? Why did you go to Romans chapter 7 and 8 when we were talking about Galatians chapters 3 through 4? We have to put the whole picture of everything he taught about this situation together.

mfblume · #90 03-02-2019, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

You made the statement "even a child can see", and I agreed that even a child could see what Paul was saying, IF they had a basic grasp of grammar and understood the three basic tenses of past, present, and future.

You are eisegeting Paul's words into the past tense, whereas the actual text is present and future tense. I'm gonna stick with what's written.

I'm not eisegeting anything. I had no opinion when I first studied those verses and got what I shared with you.

When you responded the way you did, you were not adding anything to the conversation, but just saying that I'm not, you are.