Five-fold ministry

[kingdomapostle]

DOES IT EXISITS IN THE APOSTOLIC CHURCH?

It should...to truly be Apostolic.

What's being taught about this subject where you fellowship?

[OneAccord]

The 5 fold ministry is alive and well in the Church of Jesus Christ. But, I question some of the teaching in regards to the 5 fold ministry that we hear today. I don't think there is a clear understanding as to just what these ministries entail. What purpose to they serve? What is the nature of each individual ministry? For eaxmple: Just what is an Apostle? How does the ministry and office of the apostle differ from that of an Evangelist? An Apostle is, according to Strongs: 1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders

In studying about the various NT ministries I have found that the "apostle" often served in church governmental roles. The Bible talks about when disputes or questions arose, they were often presented to the Apostles at Jerusalem for a decision. So, IMO, Apostles would be those charged with the governmental oversight of the churches. They would be the "Presiding Bishops", and or "Regional bishops" of the contemporary churches of today.

Prophets exists, but shouldn't necessarily be confused with "seers". Seers were different from prophets. Seers see visions, prophesy of future events. Prophets come with a specifc divine message from the Lord. The message of the Prophet takes precedence over the visions of the Seer.

[kingdomapostle]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

The 5 fold ministry is alive and well in the Church of Jesus Christ. But, I question some of the teaching in regards to the 5 fold ministry that we hear today. I don't think there is a clear understanding as to just what these ministries entail. What purpose to they serve? What is the nature of each individual ministry? For eaxmple: Just what is an Apostle? How does the ministry and office of the apostle differ from that of an Evangelist? An Apostle is, according to Strongs: 1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders

In studying about the various NT ministries I have found that the "apostle" often served in church governmental roles. The Bible talks about when disputes or questions arose, they were often presented to the Apostles at Jerusalem for a decision. So, IMO, Apostles would be those charged with the governmental oversight of the churches. They would be the "Presiding Bishops", and or "Regional bishops" of the contemporary churches of today.

Prophets exists, but shouldn't necessarily be confused with "seers". Seers were different from prophets. Seers see visions, prophesy of future events. Prophets come with a specifc divine message from the Lord. The message of the Prophet takes precedence over the visions of the Seer.

Did you cut and paste this? It sounds familiar to a point of view I once read online. No worries if you did, because its still how you view it...I was just wondering the source.

[kingdomapostle]

As for the content of what you posted...I think that's really interesting because the Apostolic church (in doctrine) focuses on making sure everything is done by the pattern Jesus gave to the Apostles (or at least that's the claim). So I would think that a greater emphasis would be placed on the operation of the 5-fold pattern. But in many organizations that claim Apostolic heritage, I don't see it being taught.

[Sam]

Dale Yerton in his book "Foundational Truth" copyright 1984 on page 87 describes what those in the 5 fold ministry do as follows:
Apostles govern
Prophets guide
Evangelists gather
Pastors guard
Teachers ground

Lee Stoneking in his book "Five Fold Ministry and Spiritual Insights" copyright 2003 says the almost the same thing on page 25:
Structurally in the beginning:
Apostles governed
Prophets guided
Evangelists gathered
Pastors guarded
Teachers grounded

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

Did you cut and paste this? It sounds familiar to a point of view I once read online. No worries if you did, because its still how you view it...I was just wondering the source.

Nope. Not a cut and paster poster, usually. If I do cut and paste, I'll include the source.

And, I sometimes wonder about the NT being the pattern for the church of the last days. The church then was in its infancy. And, its easy to see that the NT church had more than its share of problems... it resembled, in many ways, well, the church of today. I don't know if God is pleased with us aspiring to be the "church of yesterday". But, maybe He wants us to be "the Church of tomorrow", like what Paul envisioned in Eph. 5:27.

[Sam]

Reference Ephesians 4:1-16
Verses 1-6 speak about the one Church, the Body of Christ
Verses 7-11 list 5 offices which Jesus has placed in the Church.
Verse 12 gives the purpose of those offices
Verses 13-16 tell us that those offices will be needed as long as there is a church on earth


Apostles

I have the following notes about 26 people called "apostle" or "messenger" or "he that is sent" who are named.
There are also some who are not named, plus Jesus is called an apostle in the NT.

The original 12 are listed in Matthew 10:1-4 and Luke 6:12-16.

Here is the list according to my notes (don't know for sure where I got these notes or if the word count is accurate)


apostolos -a delegate, one sent with full power of attorney to act in the place of another, the sender remaining behind to back up the one sent, a messenger, delegate

The word occurs 81 times in the NT,
It is translated apostle 78 times,
messenger 2 times,
and he that is sent 1 time.
Apostles in the New Testament
1 Peter, or Simon, or Kefa
2 Andrew
3 James (brother of John)
4 John (brother of James)
5 Philip
6 Batholomew or Nathaniel, brother of Philip
7 James, son of Alphaeus or James the less Mark 15:40
8 Judas, or Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus, son of James,
9 Matthew or Levi of Alphaeus Mark 2:14; Lu 6:15-16
10Thomas or Didymus or Twin
11 Simon the Zealot Acts 1:13
12 Judas Iscariot
13 Matthias Acts 1:26 (Paul refers to him as one of the 12 in I Cor 15:5)
14 Saul or Paul Gal. 1:1; 2:7,8, 1 Timothy 2:7
15 Barnabas Acts 11:22; 13:1-4; 14:1,4,14;I Cor 9:5-6
16 Andronicus Rom 16:7
17 Junia or Junias, or Julia Rom 16:7 (only woman called an apostle)
18 Apollos I Cor 4:6-9
19 James the Lord’s brother Gal 1:19 Acts 1:14, 1 Cor 15:7
20 Timothy I Thess 1:1; 2:6
21 Silas or Silvanus I Thess 1:1; 2:6, Acts 15:22
22 Titus 2 Cor. 8:23 (messenger) Acts 19:22
23 Epaphroditus Phil 2:25 (messenger)
24 Erastus Acts 19:22
25 Judas (Barsabas) Acts 15:22
26 Tychicus 2 Tim 4:12
27 Unnamed brothers 2 Cor 8:23
28 Jesus Christ Heb. 3:1



Prophets in the New Testament
Anna (Luke2:36)
John the Baptist (Luke 7:28)
Paul (1 Timothy 2:7, 2 Timothy 1:11), Barnabas, Simeon, Lucius, Manaen (Acts 13:1)
Agabus (Acts 11:27-28, Acts 21:10) and unnamed others (Acts 11:27-28)
Judas and Silas (Acts 15:32)

Evangelists in the New Testament
Only Philip is called an evangelist ref (Acts 21:8)
We see Philip preaching to a whole city and to an individual in Acts chapter 8.

Pastors in the New Testament
The word “pastor” is not in the KJV NewTestament, “pastors” occurs only in Eph 4:11

Teachers in the New Testament
Paul (1 Timothy 2:7, 2 Timothy 1:11), Barnabas, Simeon, Lucius, Manaen (Acts 13:1, 35)

[kingdomapostle]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Nope. Not a cut and paster poster, usually. If I do cut and paste, I'll include the source.

And, I sometimes wonder about the NT being the pattern for the church of the last days. The church then was in its infancy. And, its easy to see that the NT church had more than its share of problems... it resembled, in many ways, well, the church of today. I don't know if God is pleased with us aspiring to be the "church of yesterday". But, maybe He wants us to be "the Church of tomorrow", like what Paul envisioned in Eph. 5:27.

You know that is an excellent point (and thanks also for clearing up the whole cut and paste comment I made earlier)! Wow, I'm going to chew on that for a moment.

They had their schools of thought, there problems, I mean even the very people that hung out PERSONALLY with Jesus came away from the experience with different accounts of the SAME story. Hum....

[Sister Alvear]

I believe in the five fold ministry...

[kingdomapostle]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I believe in the five fold ministry...

Me too.