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  #61  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:57 AM
n david n david is offline
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
The scenario was the Pastor is conservative and the Church as a whole was not.
It has been me experience that if the Pastor would preach and enforce conservative values then the Church would obey, at least a majority.
What is the Pastor supposed to do? Raid homes to check for TVs? Stake out theaters or pools to make sure congregants aren't breaking his rules?

Preach the Gospel.
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  #62  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:03 AM
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Bro Flame Bro Flame is offline
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

I know of a few congregations where the pastors and their families uphold higher standards than the rest of the church.

However, this could be to a variety of factors.
* The church could be full of newcomers who haven't grown in holiness, separation, or obedience to the pastor.
* The pastor sees a lot of what he preaches as his personal conviction or pulpit standards, and therefore doesn't stress much emphasis on said matters to those in the pews.
* The congregation just might be in rebellion, and won't commit to such standards and expectations.
* The congregation itself may be "backing up" on such holiness standards and traditions, and has strained the church.

The pastor has a role in all of this, more or less, but to blame he or she entirely quite simply isn't fair or completely accurate. As aforementioned, pastors may not expect the same standards to be upheld by those in the pews unless such individuals hold positions in the pulpit or elsewhere in the church. A spirit of rebellion might have quite easily taken over certain individuals who have always, for the lack of better terms, "pushed the envelope" of standards.
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I am Apostolic
I believe in One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
I believe in water baptism by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
I believe in living a holiness lifestyle, inwardly and outwardly, without which no man shall see the Lord.
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  #63  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:12 AM
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
What is the Pastor supposed to do? Raid homes to check for TVs? Stake out theaters or pools to make sure congregants aren't breaking his rules?

Preach the Gospel.
I had a pastor that said he ought to be able to enter anyone’s home to inspect for a tv.
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  #64  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:33 AM
n david n david is offline
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

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Originally Posted by diakonos View Post
I had a pastor that said he ought to be able to enter anyone’s home to inspect for a tv.
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  #65  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:36 AM
derAlte derAlte is offline
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

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Originally Posted by Ehud View Post
Well, it's hard to argue experiences, and I certainly have no intention of doing so, but that has not been mine. Thank you for the response though!
It has been my observation over the years that discipling folks is a process that for some, can take many years. Most churches worth their salt have people in all sorts of different places in their walk with God. The only thing that will cause the internalization of a Biblical holiness lifestyle is exposure to the Word of God. One cannot force feed steak down a baby's throat without killing it.

If folks live conservative holiness standards out of fear of the pastor or the disapproval of the congregation, then they are simply conforming and not believing. It's just an empty show. A patient, faithful, loving and longsuffering pastor, through steady preaching and teaching can make a real difference in people's lives. But it takes time.

Many blowhards have gotten in pulpits and destroyed the future of countless spiritual babies, when time and gentleness and repeated exposure to the inspired truth of the Word of God would have eventually won them over. Don't get me wrong, there is always a time and place for straight and true preaching done with love and longsuffering. But some of these blowhards are more interested in bragging to their buddies how they worked the congregation over. For some, it is their fallen human nature manifesting itself. They are naturally mean and vicious people who enjoy verbally beating someone up and think because they are preaching, it is OK. In some circles, this is encouraged. Some of these guys genuinely think they are doing God a service but are actually unwisely using the Word to kill instead of build up.

Maybe it's the part of the country where I live, but pastors here are no more able to "force" folks to live conservative holiness standards than the man in the moon. I'm told folks were more "obedient" in the past. Times have changed and it ain't that way now.

What I'm trying to get across here is that just because a congregation may not be 100% in compliance with what the pastor stands for doesn't mean he's not doing his job. Cut the poor man some slack and give him the time he needs to work with people. Some folks will never comply and good churches usually have a mixed multitude of people hanging around for whatever reason. But as the pastor obeys and follows the leading of the Holy Ghost, he may just get some folks to willingly come around to living a Biblical lifestyle.
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  #66  
Old 05-21-2019, 12:34 PM
Ehud Ehud is offline
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derAlte View Post
It has been my observation over the years that discipling folks is a process that for some, can take many years. Most churches worth their salt have people in all sorts of different places in their walk with God. The only thing that will cause the internalization of a Biblical holiness lifestyle is exposure to the Word of God. One cannot force feed steak down a baby's throat without killing it.

If folks live conservative holiness standards out of fear of the pastor or the disapproval of the congregation, then they are simply conforming and not believing. It's just an empty show. A patient, faithful, loving and longsuffering pastor, through steady preaching and teaching can make a real difference in people's lives. But it takes time.

Many blowhards have gotten in pulpits and destroyed the future of countless spiritual babies, when time and gentleness and repeated exposure to the inspired truth of the Word of God would have eventually won them over. Don't get me wrong, there is always a time and place for straight and true preaching done with love and longsuffering. But some of these blowhards are more interested in bragging to their buddies how they worked the congregation over. For some, it is their fallen human nature manifesting itself. They are naturally mean and vicious people who enjoy verbally beating someone up and think because they are preaching, it is OK. In some circles, this is encouraged. Some of these guys genuinely think they are doing God a service but are actually unwisely using the Word to kill instead of build up.

Maybe it's the part of the country where I live, but pastors here are no more able to "force" folks to live conservative holiness standards than the man in the moon. I'm told folks were more "obedient" in the past. Times have changed and it ain't that way now.

What I'm trying to get across here is that just because a congregation may not be 100% in compliance with what the pastor stands for doesn't mean he's not doing his job. Cut the poor man some slack and give him the time he needs to work with people. Some folks will never comply and good churches usually have a mixed multitude of people hanging around for whatever reason. But as the pastor obeys and follows the leading of the Holy Ghost, he may just get some folks to willingly come around to living a Biblical lifestyle.
The highlighted portions are *much* more in line with my own experiences.
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  #67  
Old 05-21-2019, 01:05 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derAlte View Post
It has been my observation over the years that discipling folks is a process that for some, can take many years. Most churches worth their salt have people in all sorts of different places in their walk with God. The only thing that will cause the internalization of a Biblical holiness lifestyle is exposure to the Word of God. One cannot force feed steak down a baby's throat without killing it.

If folks live conservative holiness standards out of fear of the pastor or the disapproval of the congregation, then they are simply conforming and not believing. It's just an empty show. A patient, faithful, loving and longsuffering pastor, through steady preaching and teaching can make a real difference in people's lives. But it takes time.

Many blowhards have gotten in pulpits and destroyed the future of countless spiritual babies, when time and gentleness and repeated exposure to the inspired truth of the Word of God would have eventually won them over. Don't get me wrong, there is always a time and place for straight and true preaching done with love and longsuffering. But some of these blowhards are more interested in bragging to their buddies how they worked the congregation over. For some, it is their fallen human nature manifesting itself. They are naturally mean and vicious people who enjoy verbally beating someone up and think because they are preaching, it is OK. In some circles, this is encouraged. Some of these guys genuinely think they are doing God a service but are actually unwisely using the Word to kill instead of build up.

Maybe it's the part of the country where I live, but pastors here are no more able to "force" folks to live conservative holiness standards than the man in the moon. I'm told folks were more "obedient" in the past. Times have changed and it ain't that way now.

What I'm trying to get across here is that just because a congregation may not be 100% in compliance with what the pastor stands for doesn't mean he's not doing his job. Cut the poor man some slack and give him the time he needs to work with people. Some folks will never comply and good churches usually have a mixed multitude of people hanging around for whatever reason. But as the pastor obeys and follows the leading of the Holy Ghost, he may just get some folks to willingly come around to living a Biblical lifestyle.
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  #68  
Old 05-21-2019, 01:08 PM
Antipas Antipas is offline
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehud View Post
So it's the pastor's fault if the entire congregation doesn't abide by the manual?
Why do we need a manual when we have the Bible?
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  #69  
Old 05-21-2019, 01:12 PM
Antipas Antipas is offline
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
What is the Pastor supposed to do? Raid homes to check for TVs? Stake out theaters or pools to make sure congregants aren't breaking his rules?

Preach the Gospel.
So very true. Pastor's aren't able to police the congregation's private dwellings and private lives. The most they can do is admonish the congregation to a given standard of holiness.

I think one has to trust God here to some degree. I trust God to bring any significant hidden sin or rebellion to the surface.

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  #70  
Old 05-21-2019, 01:13 PM
Antipas Antipas is offline
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Re: UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Roller View Post
I know of a few congregations where the pastors and their families uphold higher standards than the rest of the church.

However, this could be to a variety of factors.
* The church could be full of newcomers who haven't grown in holiness, separation, or obedience to the pastor.
* The pastor sees a lot of what he preaches as his personal conviction or pulpit standards, and therefore doesn't stress much emphasis on said matters to those in the pews.
* The congregation just might be in rebellion, and won't commit to such standards and expectations.
* The congregation itself may be "backing up" on such holiness standards and traditions, and has strained the church.

The pastor has a role in all of this, more or less, but to blame he or she entirely quite simply isn't fair or completely accurate. As aforementioned, pastors may not expect the same standards to be upheld by those in the pews unless such individuals hold positions in the pulpit or elsewhere in the church. A spirit of rebellion might have quite easily taken over certain individuals who have always, for the lack of better terms, "pushed the envelope" of standards.
Amen.
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