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  #31  
Old 08-26-2010, 02:39 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

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Originally Posted by Mr. Smith View Post
EXCELLENT and TREMENDOUS exegesis, Michael the Theologian. Everything is clear now. One person says, "I have a differing opinion." Michael the Theologian says, "You're going to burn in hell and the devil loves you."

We need more of you!!!
Glad to be appreciated friend!
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  #32  
Old 08-26-2010, 02:56 PM
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Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Glad to be appreciated friend!

Well man, I was just in awe at how you took scripture, tied it together, were exegetically and hermeneutically thorough and...........wait. You didn't use any scripture. Sorry, I must have you confused with someone who actually uses the bible.
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  #33  
Old 08-26-2010, 03:11 PM
BroGary BroGary is offline
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Smile Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

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Amen, are we not glad someone cared enough to warn us we needed to be born again !

Ezekiel 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

As far as those who say what about those who never heard the gospel, well first of all I believe that if God saw that someone was hungry to know Him in Spirit and in truth that He would make a way for them to hear, and the Bible says that mankind will be without excuse.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

God does not want any to be lost, but it is up to each individual's free will choice to decide to obey the gospel and receive the salvation that God made possible.
God's love was shown by the ultimate sacrifice at Calvary to make it POSSIBLE for any to be saved, but God has given mankind a free will to choose, and those who reject God are making their choice and will suffer the consequences of their choice.

IF everyone was going to end up being saved reguardless of their choice to not obey the truth, then why would there even be any need to preach the gospel ? (but we know everyone is not going to be saved reguardless)

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

(ignorance will not be a valid excuse, see Romans 1:20)

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is VERY serious business folks, PLEASE do not give people a false hope that they will end up being saved reguardless of their choices, they must obey the gospel and endure faithful to the end !
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  #34  
Old 08-26-2010, 04:19 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

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Originally Posted by BroGary View Post
God's love was shown by the ultimate sacrifice at Calvary to make it POSSIBLE for any to be saved, but God has given mankind a free will to choose, and those who reject God are making their choice and will suffer the consequences of their choice.

IF everyone was going to end up being saved reguardless of their choice to not obey the truth, then why would there even be any need to preach the gospel ? (but we know everyone is not going to be saved reguardless)

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

(ignorance will not be a valid excuse, see Romans 1:20)

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is VERY serious business folks, PLEASE do not give people a false hope that they will end up being saved reguardless of their choices, they must obey the gospel and endure faithful to the end !
So, Gary, why does Eternal Hell appear in the New Testament and not the Old? The Jews did not teach nor believe in such a place, and still don’t.

Since you are so sure about Hell, who will go there and who won't? Remember, we can't guess. There is no room for guessing. You’re either in or out. We can’t be in error, as the consequence is too great. You talk about rejecting or choosing God; what do you mean by this? When does a person fully choose or reject God? Is there an in-between or any wiggle room?

Do people have to speak in tongues to be saved? What about sin? What if I die with strife against my brother? What if I gossiped the day of my death? What if I lied moments before my last breath? What about children who die young? What about people who are retarded or mentally handicapped?

What about a majority of the Human Race who have never heard the Gospel or of Eternal Damnation? Modern forms of the Bible were not available to the common people until the 16th and 17th Centuries, as printing presses were unavailable.

What about backsliders? Was the Prodigal Son ever truly lost? Would the Adulterous Woman who was pardoned in this life by Jesus, be pardoned in the next life by Jesus? Guilt is guilt.

Why did Jesus constantly forgive people whom the Religious wouldn't? About the only place Jesus didn't have mercy was upon the Church or those who thought they were "Saved".

You fail to address the hard questions, putting yourself above others by thinking you won’t go to Hell and they will. This is the darkest form of Faith on Earth, and the exact reasoning that the Righteous Pharisee used when standing next to the publican who admitted his fault and need for mercy.

Gary, this World is a mess. Choosing a Religion is beyond hard. Understanding the Bible is a maze of opinions and voices. Every Denomination thinks they are right. I’m so glad God sees our unending fallacy of failure and inability to save ourselves, even with Religion.

Our only hope is His Grace, not our ability to do things right.
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  #35  
Old 08-26-2010, 04:41 PM
BroGary BroGary is offline
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Smile Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

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Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
So, Gary, why does Eternal Hell appear in the New Testament and not the Old? The Jews did not teach nor believe in such a place, and still don’t.

Since you are so sure about Hell, who will go there and who won't? Remember, we can't guess. There is no room for guessing. You’re either in or out. We can’t be in error, as the consequence is too great. You talk about rejecting or choosing God; what do you mean by this? When does a person fully choose or reject God? Is there an in-between or any wiggle room?

Do people have to speak in tongues to be saved? What about sin? What if I die with strife against my brother? What if I gossiped the day of my death? What if I lied moments before my last breath? What about children who die young? What about people who are retarded or mentally handicapped?

What about a majority of the Human Race who have never heard the Gospel or of Eternal Damnation? Modern forms of the Bible were not available to the common people until the 16th and 17th Centuries, as printing presses were unavailable.

What about backsliders? Was the Prodigal Son ever truly lost? Would the Adulterous Woman who was pardoned in this life by Jesus, be pardoned in the next life by Jesus? Guilt is guilt.

Why did Jesus constantly forgive people whom the Religious wouldn't? About the only place Jesus didn't have mercy was upon the Church or those who thought they were "Saved".

You fail to address the hard questions, putting yourself above others by thinking you won’t go to Hell and they will. This is the darkest form of Faith on Earth, and the exact reasoning that the Righteous Pharisee used when standing next to the publican who admitted his fault and need for mercy.

Gary, this World is a mess. Choosing a Religion is beyond hard. Understanding the Bible is a maze of opinions and voices. Every Denomination thinks they are right. I’m so glad God sees our unending fallacy of failure and inability to save ourselves, even with Religion.

Our only hope is His Grace, not our ability to do things right.
Anyone who has strayed from their walk with God can repent and be restored.

It is obvious that the those who have not the sense of being able to tell right from wrong (the very young, ect) can't be held accountable, that is why Acts 2:38 says "repent" and be baptized, if you are too young to yet understand right from wrong you can't be expected to be able to repent and that is why we do not believe in infant baptism, because infants can't repent because they have not yet reached the point of being able to understand right from wrong.

It will be the lake of fire that is forever as the scriptures says, and if the OT doesn't mention the lake of fire it does not make it any less Bible truth.

What I already said, as well as the scriptures mentioned, should answer several of your questions also.

No offense, I mean this sincerely, do you want to risk your, or anyone else's eternity by hoping that everyone will end up saved reguardless of their choices ? Given what the Bible says I sincerely hope not.
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  #36  
Old 08-26-2010, 07:56 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

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Originally Posted by Sherri View Post
Eddie's doing a series on Transformers - about reaching the lost and their lives being transformed. Last week he spoke about hell - it was very sobering, but not done in a scary way. I think it has to be preached if we believe it's real.
I agree!

Don't have to dwell on it. Don't have to be manipulative about it. Do have to be sober about it.
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  #37  
Old 08-26-2010, 08:12 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I think it depends on which church you go to. I've heard hundreds of sermons about sin and hell (primarily relating to dress standards and television)... but I've never heard one sermon or lesson on Heaven itself.

When was the last time anyone here has heard a sermon or lesson specifically about "Heaven"??? When was the last time anyone here has heard a sermon specifically about "Hell" or going to Hell where Hell was described? I'm willing to wager we've heard far more about Hell.
I have heard a sermon (1) about heaven.
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  #38  
Old 08-26-2010, 08:17 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

I certainly believe in hell, and believe it should be preached.

I am also in favor of taking a hard look at the doctrine of hell as a whole. I still believe it exists, I think that is clear to anyone who believes the scriptures to be the Word of God. (N4s doesn't affirm the inerrancy/inspiration of the Bible)
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"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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  #39  
Old 08-26-2010, 09:52 PM
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Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

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Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
So, Gary, why does Eternal Hell appear in the New Testament and not the Old? The Jews did not teach nor believe in such a place, and still don’t.

Since you are so sure about Hell, who will go there and who won't? Remember, we can't guess. There is no room for guessing. You’re either in or out. We can’t be in error, as the consequence is too great. You talk about rejecting or choosing God; what do you mean by this? When does a person fully choose or reject God? Is there an in-between or any wiggle room?

Do people have to speak in tongues to be saved? What about sin? What if I die with strife against my brother? What if I gossiped the day of my death? What if I lied moments before my last breath? What about children who die young? What about people who are retarded or mentally handicapped?

What about a majority of the Human Race who have never heard the Gospel or of Eternal Damnation? Modern forms of the Bible were not available to the common people until the 16th and 17th Centuries, as printing presses were unavailable.

What about backsliders? Was the Prodigal Son ever truly lost? Would the Adulterous Woman who was pardoned in this life by Jesus, be pardoned in the next life by Jesus? Guilt is guilt.

Why did Jesus constantly forgive people whom the Religious wouldn't? About the only place Jesus didn't have mercy was upon the Church or those who thought they were "Saved".

You fail to address the hard questions, putting yourself above others by thinking you won’t go to Hell and they will. This is the darkest form of Faith on Earth, and the exact reasoning that the Righteous Pharisee used when standing next to the publican who admitted his fault and need for mercy.

Gary, this World is a mess. Choosing a Religion is beyond hard. Understanding the Bible is a maze of opinions and voices. Every Denomination thinks they are right. I’m so glad God sees our unending fallacy of failure and inability to save ourselves, even with Religion.

Our only hope is His Grace, not our ability to do things right.
Just curious NFS do you believe everything must be in the OT and the NT?

and as to all your other questions, the Bible says Broad is the way to destruction. (paraphased)
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  #40  
Old 08-26-2010, 10:39 PM
Shawn Shawn is offline
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Re: Should the Message of Hell be preached in Chur

Define destruction.
Was Sodom destroyed?
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9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.



John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
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