Struggling with Doctrine & Faith

[Spirit&Truth]

Hey everyone. I'm something of a new poster here, although I have lurked on the forums off and on for a few years.

Been in church most of my life (since 5 years old or so) although my family did backslide for a while, at which point I came to God on my own (that is, apart from any push from my parents) when I was 13.

I've been running this race for 13 years now, and I've been very busy! I made up my mind a long time ago that this was the lifestyle for me. I've sat under some of the greatest men of God, and even did a couple years in Bible college. I feel I have a pretty good handle on our doctrine, was a Bible quizzer, and have been involved in ministry (still am), both assistant pastoring for one of our ministries and regularly leading worship and playing instruments.

Anyway, this may be the wrong place to post, but I'm looking for some discussion and prayer. Lately, I've been in a funk and having a crisis of faith of sorts. This all started last year when a close friend of mine, who is a minister, urged me to study the doctrine of tithing for myself and examine the whole counsel of God on the topic for myself. I put it off, because OF COURSE tithing is scriptural and essential for the NT church, right? I felt there was no way I could be wrong; I had studied before and knew all the pro-tithing points. But being a person who believes that we must LOVE the truth, I felt that I should go ahead and examine what I was being shown, because loving the truth means open to being shown that you are wrong.

So, long story short, I came to the conclusion that I was wrong on tithing. I don't really want to get into that topic in particular (thought I can elaborate if needed), this is just part of the journey. It bothered me, because if we are wrong about this, what else are we wrong about? I didn't want it to, but I felt it put me at odds with men of God who I trust with my life and know to be faithful men of God. The whole thing really bugged me, because I felt that it was plain to be seen when studying the scripture, so how could they not see? Fast forward to more recently, and I've found myself in a crisis of faith. I never thought I would be here, but I find myself questioning even core doctrines I have believed (and defended) for my whole adult/teenage life. I will humbly admit that I have even questioned right down to the existence of God, speaking in tongues, and other things, wondering if maybe none of it was real. And I am really ashamed of that. It seems impossible that I could see the things I've seen, and still have a propensity for doubt, but here I am. Deep down I love God, and my whole life has been built on this truth, and I'm just in a weird place.

Unfortunately I'm afraid if I were to bring up my doubts to the leadership at my church, then my ministry could be in jeopardy, and I love to serve and don't want to mess that up. Same goes for close friends.... I just don't want to scare people off or get branded as a heretic or something (I know I'm probably just being dramatic about that). I lead songs, play instruments, and even write songs that have been done in churches, and I don't want to mess all of that up. I just feel so weak right now, and I don't want to complicate things with the other leaders at the church or give an impression of myself that I'm not a true believer or something.

So anyway, I was just wondering if any of those here who perhaps are more experienced than me can chime in. Especially those who are in or have been in ministry. Have you found yourself in a crisis of faith like this before? What did you do to get out of it? I'm even open to books or video series that helped build your faith. Prayers are also much appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

[Esaias]

So many opinions... but what does the BIBLE say?

You have to get doctrine from the Word, and judge everything else by the Word. Doesn't matter if all the cool people are wrong, if they are wrong, they are wrong.

I've never believed anything just because some person or some church taught it. I made up my mind before I was even baptized that even if Jesus Himself came down from heaven on live TV and announced the Bible was in error, I'd stick with the Bible. Because I'd know that wasn't Jesus.

The Pharisees taught as doctrine the commandments of men, and we are not to be like that. We have to stick to the Word ONLY.

If you and I, for example, don't have the same understanding of Scripture, we should be able to sit down and search the Word to find the truth. Many won't do that, sadly, they just want everyone to believe them just because.

Know what you believe because you find it clearly taught in the Bible, not because its popular or "official". Man can't save you, only God can. So your first allegiance is to Him and His Word, no matter what others say or do.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So many opinions... but what does the BIBLE say?

You have to get doctrine from the Word, and judge everything else by the Word. Doesn't matter if all the cool people are wrong, if they are wrong, they are wrong.

I've never believed anything just because some person or some church taught it. I made up my mind before I was even baptized that even if Jesus Himself came down from heaven on live TV and announced the Bible was in error, I'd stick with the Bible. Because I'd know that wasn't Jesus.

The Pharisees taught as doctrine the commandments of men, and we are not to be like that. We have to stick to the Word ONLY.

If you and I, for example, don't have the same understanding of Scripture, we should be able to sit down and search the Word to find the truth. Many won't do that, sadly, they just want everyone to believe them just because.

Know what you believe because you find it clearly taught in the Bible, not because its popular or "official". Man can't save you, only God can. So your first allegiance is to Him and His Word, no matter what others say or do.

Very well said, Esaias!!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Very well said, Esaias!!!

Did someone mention tithing?

Getting you to appear all one needs to do is say Bettljuice 3 times.

Or post anything concerning tithing.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Did someone mention tithing?

Getting you to appear all one needs to do is say Bettljuice 3 times.

Or post anything concerning tithing.

Dude...be nice lol

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Did someone mention tithing?

Getting you to appear all one needs to do is say Bettljuice 3 times.

Or post anything concerning tithing.

Better stick with tithing. It’s easier to spell. And don’t forget about my other specialty- tattoos!

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Better stick with tithing. It’s easier to spell. And don’t forget about my other specialty- tattoos!

Tattoos?


Pray tell what be your rant on this particular candy stick?


*stares in well inked*

[Spirit&Truth]

Thanks for the responses guys (or gals).

I'm with you on that Esaias, the Bible has to be the sole authority. I guess the more I have studied the Bible, it has caused me to be uneasy about a lot of the doctrines I have heard and taught personally for a long time. The conclusion I have come to is that we are often doing exactly what you mentioned-- teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

The way I see it, someone at some point started teaching, for example, that men should be clean shaven. And for that time period and cultural context, I believe it was in line with the Spirit, and a good standard to distinguish from the trends of the world at that time. But somewhere down the line, a few generations later, it becomes so strong as a tradition that we end up teaching it as a doctrine as if it is backed up by Scripture. Beards are just one example that I think most folks these days can see eye-to-eye on, but there are other doctrines that I think are this way. The sad thing is that a lot of these "standards" are GOOD THINGS that have a place in the Christian walk, and I by no means think that traditions are always bad! We just have to make a distinction between lines that we are drawing as a group, and lines that are drawn in the Word of God.


As for believing the Word of God, I'm going to get into dangerous territory and just ask the questions weighing on my mind.

Someone confronted me with this statement (paraphrased): "you refute the doctrine of the Trinity because it wasn't made "orthodox" until the Council of Nicaea, but the very canon of New Testament books you read was also codified at the Council of Nicaea." This caused me to do some searching on the subject, and I feel it's a valid question. On that same topic, the New Testament church themselves didn't have a New Testament to read from, only the Old Testament, and even then most of the church were Gentiles, who may not have been able to read or had access to the Old Testament. So what was their faith based on? And how can we really trust that the New Testament is a reliable canon of books if it was canonized at the same Council that made the Trinity an orthodox doctrine?

Please don't misunderstand, I believe in the New Testament, and I have done my best to live it too. But these points have bothered me. I'm just looking for sound answers for this stuff. This has been literally keeping me up at night and I'm tired of wrestling. I sincerely believe that truth is truth, and it can stand scrutiny. So I have been choosing to honestly assess these things and search for the truth, no matter how difficult or painful, even if it makes me wrong.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Spirit&Truth

Thanks for the responses guys (or gals).

I'm with you on that Esaias, the Bible has to be the sole authority. I guess the more I have studied the Bible, it has caused me to be uneasy about a lot of the doctrines I have heard and taught personally for a long time. The conclusion I have come to is that we are often doing exactly what you mentioned-- teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

The way I see it, someone at some point started teaching, for example, that men should be clean shaven. And for that time period and cultural context, I believe it was in line with the Spirit, and a good standard to distinguish from the trends of the world at that time. But somewhere down the line, a few generations later, it becomes so strong as a tradition that we end up teaching it as a doctrine as if it is backed up by Scripture. Beards are just one example that I think most folks these days can see eye-to-eye on, but there are other doctrines that I think are this way. The sad thing is that a lot of these "standards" are GOOD THINGS that have a place in the Christian walk, and I by no means think that traditions are always bad! We just have to make a distinction between lines that we are drawing as a group, and lines that are drawn in the Word of God.


As for believing the Word of God, I'm going to get into dangerous territory and just ask the questions weighing on my mind.

Someone confronted me with this statement (paraphrased): "you refute the doctrine of the Trinity because it wasn't made "orthodox" until the Council of Nicaea, but the very canon of New Testament books you read was also codified at the Council of Nicaea." This caused me to do some searching on the subject, and I feel it's a valid question. On that same topic, the New Testament church themselves didn't have a New Testament to read from, only the Old Testament, and even then most of the church were Gentiles, who may not have been able to read or had access to the Old Testament. So what was their faith based on? And how can we really trust that the New Testament is a reliable canon of books if it was canonized at the same Council that made the Trinity an orthodox doctrine?

Please don't misunderstand, I believe in the New Testament, and I have done my best to live it too. But these points have bothered me. I'm just looking for sound answers for this stuff. This has been literally keeping me up at night and I'm tired of wrestling. I sincerely believe that truth is truth, and it can stand scrutiny. So I have been choosing to honestly assess these things and search for the truth, no matter how difficult or painful, even if it makes me wrong.

They had letters from the Apostles, copied and shared.

They also had the oral witness of Jesus from the Apostles.

A canon list existed before Nicea.

NT tithing, ie supporting ministry, is Biblical. Not necessarily an exact 10 percent. Could be more.

Facial hair was never an official standard

[Spirit&Truth]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

They had letters from the Apostles, copied and shared.

They also had the oral witness of Jesus from the Apostles.

A canon list existed before Nicea.

NT tithing, ie supporting ministry, is Biblical. Not necessarily an exact 10 percent. Could be more.

Facial hair was never an official standard

Typically NT "tithing" is taught as a mandatory 10 percent. In reality there is no NT "tithing" just generous freewill giving, which I am behind 100%. God wants 100% from us.

Also I'm pretty sure facial hair was an official standard until very recently. Not that I personally care. It has definitely been enforced like an official standard in a lot of places until recently.