Just a Question

clgustaveson · #1 05-28-2008, 01:19 PM

I find myself being disturbed by some ministers and their tactics in lessons.

This is no way an attack on any minister and if you know who preaches this I am not putting this man of God down.

But I was at the Indiana District UPC youth convention and the speaker preached "I Believe in Rings"...

He opened by discussing the things that we do in the church that have no biblical base such as running laps around the church, then he moved into the taboo of standards and how some are not in the Bible.

He took his text from the description of the tabernacle and talked about how rings were placed on all the items so that they could be moved in a time of transition without being tarnished.

He later drew a parallel to these rings and to the standards. He said we are in the greatest time of transition the church has ever faced and continued to rant about this.

Now, here is what bothers me and I think may be harmful:

1) Why is the church in a greater time of transition?
2) How safe is it when a preacher declares he has found some great hidden meaning in a scripture and it just blows the minds of the congregation?

I know it sounds like a great sermon but I can hardly see a shadow in rings and standards and now how many youth that were questioning their grounding in the church are going to be sustained by this faulty view point?

I just get a little upset when a preacher preaches something that sounds so mind blowing and intense but it is merely some interpretation to explain something that is not in the Bible....

dangerous!

Baron1710 · #2 05-28-2008, 01:21 PM

Relax...here have some more Kool Aid.

Ron · #3 05-28-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

I find myself being disturbed by some ministers and their tactics in lessons.

This is no way an attack on any minister and if you know who preaches this I am not putting this man of God down.

But I was at the Indiana District UPC youth convention and the speaker preached "I Believe in Rings"...

He opened by discussing the things that we do in the church that have no biblical base such as running laps around the church, then he moved into the taboo of standards and how some are not in the Bible.

He took his text from the description of the tabernacle and talked about how rings were placed on all the items so that they could be moved in a time of transition without being tarnished.

He later drew a parallel to these rings and to the standards. He said we are in the greatest time of transition the church has ever faced and continued to rant about this.

Now, here is what bothers me and I think may be harmful:

1) Why is the church in a greater time of transition?
2) How safe is it when a preacher declares he has found some great hidden meaning in a scripture and it just blows the minds of the congregation?

I know it sounds like a great sermon but I can hardly see a shadow in rings and standards and now how many youth that were questioning their grounding in the church are going to be sustained by this faulty view point?

I just get a little upset when a preacher preaches something that sounds so mind blowing and intense but it is merely some interpretation to explain something that is not in the Bible....

dangerous!

One, we don't have the full message to accurately gauge a response &
two, I can see you are not in favour of standards perhaps?

clgustaveson · #4 05-28-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron

One, we don't have the full message to accurately gauge a response &
two, I can see you are not in favour of standards perhaps?

Perhaps, but I don't think it has anything to do with being favor of standards or not.

I am not asking for a response I am asking two simple questions that could be answered a full message is not needed.

I don't want to post a transcript so that people can pick out the good things and fail to see the fundamental flaw in the foundation.

I see it too often these days, ministers try to get a point across that may be a very good point but they about it in a way that is dangerous to developing minds.

RevBuddy · #5 05-28-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

I find myself being disturbed by some ministers and their tactics in lessons.

This is no way an attack on any minister and if you know who preaches this I am not putting this man of God down.

But I was at the Indiana District UPC youth convention and the speaker preached "I Believe in Rings"...

He opened by discussing the things that we do in the church that have no biblical base such as running laps around the church, then he moved into the taboo of standards and how some are not in the Bible.

He took his text from the description of the tabernacle and talked about how rings were placed on all the items so that they could be moved in a time of transition without being tarnished.

He later drew a parallel to these rings and to the standards. He said we are in the greatest time of transition the church has ever faced and continued to rant about this.

Now, here is what bothers me and I think may be harmful:

1) Why is the church in a greater time of transition?
2) How safe is it when a preacher declares he has found some great hidden meaning in a scripture and it just blows the minds of the congregation?

I know it sounds like a great sermon but I can hardly see a shadow in rings and standards and now how many youth that were questioning their grounding in the church are going to be sustained by this faulty view point?

I just get a little upset when a preacher preaches something that sounds so mind blowing and intense but it is merely some interpretation to explain something that is not in the Bible....

dangerous!

Maybe and maybe not. Without the full context of the message, a final assessment can't be made...

...but in general, such a message seems out of order for the occasion...

Michael Phelps · #6 05-28-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

I find myself being disturbed by some ministers and their tactics in lessons.

This is no way an attack on any minister and if you know who preaches this I am not putting this man of God down.

But I was at the Indiana District UPC youth convention and the speaker preached "I Believe in Rings"...

He opened by discussing the things that we do in the church that have no biblical base such as running laps around the church, then he moved into the taboo of standards and how some are not in the Bible.

He took his text from the description of the tabernacle and talked about how rings were placed on all the items so that they could be moved in a time of transition without being tarnished.

He later drew a parallel to these rings and to the standards. He said we are in the greatest time of transition the church has ever faced and continued to rant about this.

Now, here is what bothers me and I think may be harmful:

1) Why is the church in a greater time of transition?
2) How safe is it when a preacher declares he has found some great hidden meaning in a scripture and it just blows the minds of the congregation?

I know it sounds like a great sermon but I can hardly see a shadow in rings and standards and now how many youth that were questioning their grounding in the church are going to be sustained by this faulty view point?

I just get a little upset when a preacher preaches something that sounds so mind blowing and intense but it is merely some interpretation to explain something that is not in the Bible....

dangerous!

I personally don't believe that a preacher at a camp meeting, General Conference, Youth Rally, or any other venue where several churches are represented should preach about standards AT ALL! Either for, or against, that's not the time or place, in my opinion.

Those preachers should preach about soul winning, encouragement, revival, and a host of other great topics to inspire people, in my humble opinion.

clgustaveson · #7 05-28-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Maybe and maybe not. Without the full context of the message, a final assessment can't be made...

...but in general, such a message seems out of order for the occasion...

I agree it would be out of order, but I still am not asking for an assessment to be made of the message...

Cindy · #8 05-28-2008, 01:32 PM

His point being to use standards as something that is removable when in transition to what? There is nothing new about preachers finding new meanings or points in scripture.

Cindy · #9 05-28-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

I agree it would be out of order, but I still am not asking for an assessment to be made of the message...

Then what is the point of this post?

clgustaveson · #10 05-28-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cneasttx

His point being to use standards as something that is removable when in transition to what? There is nothing new about preachers finding new meanings or points in scripture.

Just because its not new doesn't mean it is not bad...

Does anyone here actually read into the question at hand and look beyond the minor ones?

His point was not that standards are ever removable, simply that they aid in helping keep the church clean in transitional times... his statement about now being more of transitional period then ever seems incorrect IMHO but thats neither here not there.

My problem is that this type of message unsupported logic lends to a belief system that can hurt people.

I have never said their assumptions are wrong but when you base a principle on a foundation that doesn't exist you are doing something fundamentally wrong. It is safer to be wrong in principle then in foundation...