Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:18 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

http://www.upci.org/about.asp
The UPCI holds a fundamental view of the Bible: "The Bible is the only God-given authority which man possesses; therefore all doctrine, faith, hope, and all instructions for the church must be based upon and harmonize with the Bible" (Manual of the United Pentecostal Church, 19). The Bible is the Word of God, and therefore inerrant and infallible. The UPCI rejects all extrabiblical revelations and writings, and views church creeds and articles of faith only as the thinking of men.

The UPCI holds that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works. Faith in Jesus is the means by which a person is justified. At the same time, a sinner must believe the gospel; he is commanded to repent of his sinful life, to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ, and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 4:12; 8:12-17; 10:43-48; 19:1-6). Thus the various aspects of faith and obedience work together in God's grace to reconcile us to God.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:19 PM
TheLegalist TheLegalist is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,451
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Badejo View Post
Which backs up my contention that no oneness person can truly say your lost if you haven't spoken in tonuges, because their own literature shows that at the very latest point forgiveness of sins happens at water baptism.

I believe it happens earlier than that, namely at the time of genuine faith/repentance.

Strangely in DKB book "The Message of Romans" he teaches that one is justified by faith, but of course he insterts a note at the end of the dialouge that the DEFINITION of saving faith=repentance, water baptism in JN, and HG with evidence of other tongues. Strange, when I read Romans 4, I never got that.
yes... and faith is contextual. Justification is "concerning a matter" just because one is just toward one thing doesn't mean he is in other areas.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:20 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegalist View Post
Bernard is right and the other I have no idea... LOL!
So a person is forgiven of sins (remitted) by and at baptism not before like the UPCI Articles of Faith say?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:20 PM
TheLegalist TheLegalist is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,451
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
Pel, also notice the heading Repentance and Conversion has been changed... you must have an old copy.

Repentance no longer "converts" you...
depends on what is viewed as repentance.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:22 PM
Hoovie's Avatar
Hoovie Hoovie is offline
Supercalifragilisticexpiali...


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegalist View Post
depends on what is viewed as repentance.
Well true, but I was saying that a change was made in the AOF.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:24 PM
TheLegalist TheLegalist is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,451
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
So a person is forgiven of sins (remitted) by and at baptism not before like the UPCI Articles of Faith say?
what is the position of the person? Unbeliever or covenant individual. To repent is to turn and take upon the yoke of Christ to the message delivered. You are not circumised from this body of sin until Baptism. In baptism by faith we are brought unto newness/covenant life. I am no UPCI though I know many in it etc... WHo knows what messing people have done with it. To me you can't hold both positions as a article of faith. THat's crazy!

Last edited by TheLegalist; 07-10-2010 at 02:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:25 PM
TheLegalist TheLegalist is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,451
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
Well true, but I was saying that a change was made in the AOF.
ok... I will have to ask some people I know what has happened. I usually don't pay attention but inconsistency drives me nuts.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:29 PM
Hoovie's Avatar
Hoovie Hoovie is offline
Supercalifragilisticexpiali...


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegalist View Post
ok... I will have to ask some people I know what has happened. I usually don't pay attention but inconsistency drives me nuts.
I DO know what happened. The change was made in the early nineties because many see conversion to consist of the three steps, no longer associated with only repentance.

I heard D. Segraves say he was fully intending to be there and argue to keep the wording, but was delayed and came in just after the vote. He deeply regretted not being able to give a defense for the language - especially since no one else did so in his absence, and the change was made with little resistance.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves

Last edited by Hoovie; 07-10-2010 at 02:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:31 PM
OilCityCajun OilCityCajun is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Oil City, Louisiana (North of Shreveport)
Posts: 252
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
...It bothers me that a woman can have uncut hair, do the whole ball of wax Holiness Standards as far as looks and yet be committing fornication and nobody know. But take a woman that just got sick of her split ends and trims it and all of a sudden she is a sinner.
How can anyone commit fornication without at least 1 other person knowing?

Seriously, though. All of a sudden? I think not. People contemplate rebellion long before they act out on it. It just suddenly became obvious, as the fornication also will, eventually. This bothers me too. It's just that some sins are more obvious than others. For example, a cheating husband can "shout the victory" for years, but it only takes one whiff of cigarette smoke for one to be labelled a hypocrite. Neither is more nor less a sinner than the other, just some sins are more notice-able. The fact of the matter is, if the pastor preaches against trimmed hair, then disobedience is as the sin of witchcraft. If the pastor doesnt preach it, no one else has the authority to "call them out" on it because no one else will be held responsible for that person's soul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
If this is so, why do most people who go through all three steps fall away? Why is sin so prevalent in "holiness" churches? Why are the rates of marital infidelity, teen pregnancy and divorce identical for those who have done the "Three Step" as they are for the general population of unregenerate sinners?
Simple. Some who receive the power choose not to use it. And since the Spirit of God will not stay where sin is, when one doesnt use it, they lose it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
...Luke 24:47 says, "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
Why then the apparent distinction by Christ, Himself, between repentance and remission, as well as between swept and garnished? Are we going to now hear the often applied and rarely accurate "Kai defense"?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-10-2010, 02:31 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
Saved by Grace


 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
Re: UPC doctrinal contradiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegalist View Post
yes... and faith is contextual. Justification is "concerning a matter" just because one is just toward one thing doesn't mean he is in other areas.
Here are some quotes from DKB's book on Romans:

"It [the current passge in study 3:21-5:1] states the central doctrine of the epistle—justification by faith—and develops some important logical consequences of that doctrine. After discussing this passage we will insert a note on saving faith, because a proper understanding of faith is essential to understanding the doctrine of justification by faith." p.87

Basically hes going to give commentary on the passgage at face value for about 30 pages, then at the conclusion he is going to redefine "faith" so that it equals repentance, water baptsim in JN, and baptixm of HG with evidence of tongues.

more to come
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards

"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Biblical Contradiction? noeticknight Deep Waters 86 08-10-2010 10:12 PM
The Obama Contradiction deacon blues Political Talk 1 01-30-2010 09:45 AM
Interesting Contradiction about the Gay Movement Praxeas Fellowship Hall 2 05-03-2008 09:39 AM
Doctrinal Question - Someone Please Take a Shot at This. TRFrance Fellowship Hall 269 12-31-2007 05:57 PM
Doctrinal Purity - Is it THAT Important? StillStanding Deep Waters 90 03-05-2007 08:47 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.