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  #41  
Old 10-29-2020, 04:36 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Mike, the difference between them and us is they knew what everything meant. Greek and Aramaic where their birth languages. The Hebrew Bible was understood as their history, written in their birth language. The New Testament was written in real time with current events they personally knew and thoroughly understood. They knew the Judean mythologies, Greek myths, they understood Kabbalah Gnostics and could identify them. Jesus’ words and Paul’s letters were not cryptic to them, and their main enemy were Judaizers who still had a working active Temple system. Who can point the early Christians and say that Jesus wasn’t the Christ. Again, they knew Greek, and Aramaic gematria. Paul didn’t have to guess, and contemplate what ifs or it could be that.
What I get from you is that Matthew 24, 2 Thess, and the book of Revelation were actually Jewish myths, Greek fables, and Kabbalah Gnostic doctrines.

Doesnt say much for Yeshua and the apostles if thats what they were peddling.
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  #42  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:47 PM
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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What I get from you is that Matthew 24, 2 Thess, and the book of Revelation were actually Jewish myths, Greek fables, and Kabbalah Gnostic doctrines.
I said that they understood their times better than you or I. They understood the tradition of a Sabbath day's journey (which recently Esaias pointed out in another thread) There was an entire thread where Esaias and myself pointed out myths of that time which apostles used to prove their points. Not that they were giving credence to these myths. Like Paul quoting Greek and Cretan Philosophers. Does that mean Paul believed Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 1 Thess 4, the book of Revelation were actually copies of the works Epimenides, Menander, and Aratus? Mike everyone knows that Paul was quoting these pagan philosophers. Are you saying that Paul believed that they wrote the Gospel? No, I know you don't believe that, but you also can't answer why Paul used their work. The skinny answer would be that you haven't a clue what the first century world looked like. Other then MGM's Ten Commandments or Franco Zeffirelli's, Jesus of Nazareth.


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Doesnt say much for Yeshua and the apostles if thats what they were peddling.
Now we see where you are at. Yeshua, YAH, shalom, this is the extent of what you believe everything was like. The New Testament was originally penned in Hebrew, and that every single word of the Gospel accounts were in Hebrew. Therefore to correctly understand the first century we have to see it all through a totally Jewish lens. But not a first century A.D. Hellenistic Judean lens. Even though the New Testament was preserved for us in Greek for over 2,000 years. The lens you look through is one created by the Babylonian Talmud Mike, somewhere a Rabbi is laughing at you.
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Last edited by Evang.Benincasa; 10-29-2020 at 05:51 PM.
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  #43  
Old 10-29-2020, 07:31 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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There was an entire thread where Esaias and myself pointed out myths of that time which apostles used to prove their points.
You tried and failed to make certain truths of Gods word into myths.

Quote:
Like Paul quoting Greek and Cretan Philosophers. Does that mean Paul believed Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 1 Thess 4, the book of Revelation were actually copies of the works Epimenides, Menander, and Aratus? Mike everyone knows that Paul was quoting these pagan philosophers.
Paul plainly said he was quoting certain of their poets. Acts 17:28

That has nothing to do with you now seemingly making the accusation that Yeshua and the apostles teaching was Jewish fables, Greek myths, and Kabbala.
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  #44  
Old 10-29-2020, 07:33 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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The lens you look through is one created by the Babylonian Talmud Mike, somewhere a Rabbi is laughing at you.
If by that you mean I think the OT was written in Hebrew let him laugh.
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  #45  
Old 10-29-2020, 08:10 PM
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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You tried and failed to make certain truths of Gods word into myths.
Prove the above accusation. Prove how Esaias and I tried to make certain truths of God into myths. I'm interested in seeing how you put this together.


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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Paul plainly said he was quoting certain of their poets. Acts 17:28
So were they when the use certain myths, and Judaic traditions, to drive home a point. But, please show me where in the Old Testament archangel Michael disputes with the devil about the body of Moses? Why didn't the writer of Jude quote his source?

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
That has nothing to do with you now seemingly making the accusation that Yeshua and the apostles teaching was Jewish fables, Greek myths, and Kabbala.

More accusations you need to prove.

But, Mike, how much Hebrew or Aramaic do you actually speak?
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  #46  
Old 10-29-2020, 08:19 PM
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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If by that you mean I think the OT was written in Hebrew let him laugh.
Mike, the Rabbi doesn't laugh because you believe a given fact, but that you also believe that the New Testament was also originally penned in Hebrew. He also would humorously muse over your Medieval Rabbinical view of the first century Jerusalem. Mike, do you believe that the New Testament was originally written in Greek? Was the name of Christ originally transliterated in Greek? When Jesus went to Egypt as a child, how long did the family spend there and what language did they speak? What is the Apostle Philip's name in Hebrew?
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  #47  
Old 10-29-2020, 09:21 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Mike, the Rabbi doesn't laugh because you believe a given fact, but that you also believe that the New Testament was also originally penned in Hebrew.
Quote:
Mike, do you believe that the New Testament was originally written in Greek?
It is likely that if the audience were Hebrews it would be written as such. If they were Greek probably written in Greek.

Nothing says it had to all be written in one language.

Quote:
When Jesus went to Egypt as a child, how long did the family spend there and what language did they speak? What is the Apostle Philip's name in Hebrew?
I dont know to all 3.

How did we get here?
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  #48  
Old 10-29-2020, 09:34 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Prove the above accusation. Prove how Esaias and I tried to make certain truths of God into myths. I'm interested in seeing how you put this together.
Its not an accusation. You already admitted it.

Quote:
So were they when the use certain myths, and Judaic traditions, to drive home a point. But, please show me where in the Old Testament archangel Michael disputes with the devil about the body of Moses? Why didn't the writer of Jude quote his source?
See you are doing it right now. Pushing the idea that Jude was not teaching true doctrine but myths. Apparently they had more sources then than we do. Nothing says he has to quote his source. He was either an apostle or the brother of James the brother of Jesus or both.
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  #49  
Old 10-29-2020, 10:02 PM
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
It is likely that if the audience were Hebrews it would be written as such. If they were Greek probably written in Greek.

Nothing says it had to all be written in one language.
It's likely? So you don't know? Mike Jesus spoke Greek, the New Testament was entirely written in Greek. When you look at Acts you have a multilingual group of Judeans assembled on the day of Pentecost. All whose birth languages weren't Hebrew. They were all part of the Judean Diaspora from all over the Roman Empire. One language unified the Roman world with the Judean world, it would be Greek.

Therefore the documents which would be sent throughout the known world would be in the universal language of that known world, Greek. Jesus would have a disciple whose name was Phillip, a Greek Macedonian name, but the man was a Hebrew. Jesus would change the name of his disciple from the Aramaic Kepha to the Greek Petros. Nothing says it had to be in one language? On the contrary, the documents which make up the New Testament were preserved in one language, Greek. The name of our Christ is preserved in Greek. Yet, still my question remains the same, do you speak Hebrew? Do you read Hebrew?


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I dont know to all 3.
I thought as much. So, with that, you don't know what their world was like. You don't know what the different idioms which were being used. Or the different doctrines formulated by groups of the many Rabbinical schools, Hellenized Judaic groups, or even the influences of the Essenes within the culture of the first century. These are the things which Jesus, the apostles and Paul understood first hand. They awaited the compilation of their prophetic writings. Not with hand wringing, or being let down like they were let down by every other false teacher and prophet who came before. This time the light shown out of the darkness. This time one who is Christ would reveal the truth. Paul was once blind and now he saw everything crystal clear.

We don't have Paul telling us he thinks its this, or even once telling us maybes, but we are told and shown the truth. Paul isn't Brother Irvin Baxter Jr, going on for years, page after page of epistel giving opinions. Did Paul instruct us that a Temple was going to have to be rebuilt in his future? That a red heifer would become extinct and have to be brought back to cleanse the temple mount? Paul said if he rebuilt the things he once tore down he would be a transgressor. Jesus said not one stone would remain upon another that all would be thrown down. Even Julian the Apostate understood that if he could rebuild the temple in Jerusalem that he would prove that Jesus wasn't the Christ. But sadder than sad, Brother Baxter Jr believes that a third temple MUST be built.


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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
How did we get here?
Because on a forum of English speakers you have to refer to Jesus in another language.

Good God in Zion
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  #50  
Old 10-29-2020, 10:06 PM
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Re: Bro. Baxter on Trumps Peace Plan

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Its not an accusation. You already admitted it.

See you are doing it right now. Pushing the idea that Jude was not teaching true doctrine but myths. Apparently they had more sources then than we do. Nothing says he has to quote his source. He was either an apostle or the brother of James the brother of Jesus or both.
Mike you are still accusing me of something which we never said in that thread. But answer the question, show where the archangel Michael disputes over the body of Moses with the Devil? Where is Jude quoting from? Tell me where Paul quotes from the Greek Philosophers. Show me the verses where Paul tell his readers that he is quoting from Pagans.
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