What kind of pastor is this?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Yes it is partially the church's pastor fault that minorities won't attend there.

and yes I have asked some black oneness members why they will not attend UPC churches, care to guess what answer they gave me??

I came to the Lord in a church where the Pastor was white but most of the members were black.

Yeah I don't buy that.

In my church under my old Pastor, we went door knocking..it wasn't a "white" Neighborhood...because there is no such thing here. Knocked on this door and a black lady answered. When we told her which church she commented that she drove by all the time and didn't know her kind was welcomed there. She just assumed it.

Our Pastor did not send us out and tell us that if a black person answers to just say we got the wrong house.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by DanShaf

Buddy..I can't take anything you say seriously,if you are trying to pass off the idea that some of these churches that are pastored by some older men that are heavy-handed at times..fall to this level!

He get's confused at times. while he is here he watches TV, Youtube, does some photoshoping and who knows what else

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He get's confused at times. while he is here he watches TV, Youtube, does some photoshoping and who knows what else

.

There is nothing to be said while the inmates are in charge of asylum.

Goodbye.

[Praxeas]

lol

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yeah I don't buy that.

In my church under my old Pastor, we went door knocking..it wasn't a "white" Neighborhood...because there is no such thing here. Knocked on this door and a black lady answered. When we told her which church she commented that she drove by all the time and didn't know her kind was welcomed there. She just assumed it.

Our Pastor did not send us out and tell us that if a black person answers to just say we got the wrong house.

by the way dear brother,

I am looking in the east side of Los Angeles for a cheap place to rent on Saturday, so that I can start a 7th day Apostolic church. maybe a church that does not use their place on Saturday?

perhaps you know of someone, who will rent us a very cheap place. (free would be even better) somewhere around the area of Whittier, Norwalk, Santa Fe springs, Pico Rivera, La Habra or Fullerton?

I want to start our new church sometime on 2014.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

by the way dear brother,

I am looking in the east side of Los Angeles for a cheap place to rent on Saturday, so that I can start a 7th day Apostolic church. maybe a church that does not use their place on Saturday?

perhaps you know of someone, who will rent us a very cheap place. (free would be even better) somewhere around the area of Whittier, Norwalk, Santa Fe springs, Pico Rivera, La Habra or Fullerton?

I want to start our new church sometime on 2014.

Sorry. I'm about an 45 min North of LA, but I hope you can find something

[n david]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

OK, so obviously some others here know this character. This guy has already had a congregation move with him??

I'm curious: How many men in the congregation have had to share their wives with this joker to date? (This is almost ALWAYS the end game of guys like this.)

And he is STILL referenced to as a Man of God???

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I am not saying he did the wife swapping thing, but in these ultra-controlling churches that is almost always the end game.

I would also be worried about the congregation with this current "comet of the century" circling our Sun. I don't want to hear about them on the Nightly news in a few weeks.

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

You obviously don't have a clue about cults and how they end.

Sexual control is the next-to-final conquest, with mass suicide being the ultimate final.

I don't know whether you're joking or serious. I'm hoping you're just joking because if not, you are way off the mark. I mean you went completely off the deep end here.

Wife swapping? Sexual control? Mass suicide?

Name me one...just ONE...AMF/UPC/insert any other con or ultra-con org Pastor who has engaged in wife swapping, sexual control, or mass suicide?

Just one. I'm not talking about a minister having an affair, either.

Wife swapping.
Sexual control.
Mass suicide.

[n david]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Well I have worshipped at different oneness churches, and one thing I noticed is that if the church was UPC affiliated, they usually had very few minority members.

Where were these UPC churches located? What was the demographic of the area in which the church was located?

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

There is a knee jerk reaction in some UPC pastors to deny any racism for it is not politically correct to be racist, but their outreach efforts show where they really want members from.

I don't deny there are some churches (in all denoms, not just UPC) which target certain demographics. I don't believe that makes them racist.

Originally Posted by Sasha

You sound as if it's the church's fault that minorities won't attend there. Have you asked the minorities why they won't?

I have heard this before. If you attend a white church and you are white, it's your fault there are no blacks in your church. If you are white, why don't you attend a black church? I never see anyone accusing black churches of failing to have white people attend their congregations. Why is that, if it's a problem?

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Yes it is partially the church's pastor fault that minorities won't attend there.

That's just ridiculous. Sorry, but in the majority of cases, it's absolutely NOT the fault of the Pastor or the people that blacks won't attend.

My father was Pastor of a church for 32 years in a midwest city. The church was located in a lower income, mostly white neighborhood, though there were a few blacks living in the area.

A black family came to visit, liked the church and decided to become members. They became involved in various ministries around the church and were a blessing. About 3 weeks after they started attending, the man came to my father upset because his former Pastor visited their home to see why they hadn't been attending.

When this family told the Pastor they were coming to our church, this black Pastor told them, "They don't like black folk." He continued to accuse my father of being racist and tell the family that they needed to stick together with their own.

To the credit of this man, after the Pastor started his racist accusations, the man told the Pastor he heard enough and asked him to leave.

Don't tell me it's the fault of the church, Pastor or people that blacks won't attend. Most of the time it's their own racial prejudice.

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Gasp, don't tell me black people are prejudice too!

Absolutely.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

This man has controlled with fear, lies and intimidation as long as he has been pastoring. This is the only pastor she has ever had. She has not known anything else. Unless you've been in a situation where a pastor exerted control like this man has, you wouldn't understand, and I can see why some would say... just follow that man, because you don't know the whole story.

Most of my family has left, but there are just a few left, which means that there is a part of me still there. Because situations like this pop up and you have to deal with it.

I praise the Lord for the fact that I have been able to forgive for the things that have taken place. I could strew a lot of ugly garbage here about many, many, many situations that have taken place over the years, but I won't, because, the Lord taught me years ago when I wanted to take things into my own hands that "vengeance is mine". For whatever reason, the Lord allows this to continue, and doesn't stop it. I don't know why. It's gone on for a LONG time, but, I have found peace in my heart, and I don't question the Lord for His reasoning on not putting a stop to it.

And I pray for the pastor in question and ask the Lord to bring his heart to a place of repentance and understanding. I don't wish hell on anyone (although if my flesh had its way, it surely would wish hellfire and brimstone on this man for the pain he has caused), but then the Spirit of Christ within me rises up, and pities the man who feels he has to live this way, and cause so much harm.

This post says it all, this man most assuredly should not be a pastor, and those that stay and "obey" him are enabling him to continue to abuse the folks, and are accomplice in his sin. They are guilty of abusing all that join or are born into this bondage!!!

You by forgiving, instead of actively confronting and are also enabling. God doesn't come down physically and remove evil. He empowers those that can hear and see the evil to set in motion action that results in its removal.
We don't have to do evil, to confront evil. WE should be enabled by the Holy Spirit to set its removal into motion.

Speak clearly to everyone person caught up in this evil, and speak the truth, quit whitewashing his actions, he is wrong and he is sinning against his people and against God.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

See? That is my point. I believe pastoral relationships like that are not only unbiblical but unhealthy.

I know people and a church that is like that. It took YEARS for some of his members to finally wake up and leave but others chose to just not go to church anymore at all rather than go to another church for fear of going to hell..ironic eh?

Seriously I have friends that are former members. He has told some before that they were better off backsliding than going to the Apostolic church just in the other city and that they might as well pitch their tents in Sodom.

Too this day former members are STILL affected by this strict control and manipulation. It's a long long process of healing to get over that.

Was there many years ago, but my eyes were opened very early in my mid twenties. The pastor preached this same fear, eventually installed his youngest son, who he and his wife could controlled, as pastor. This son had sexually abused young girls in the congregation and later, spent years in prison, and may still be there.

It grieves me to state these facts, however, it is important to speak plainly. If you are under the control of a man, and not directly in relationship to Jesus Christ, you and those you are in community with are in great danger. God did not give men to LORD over the church. Rather to SERVE, in love, allowing folks to make mistakes, love them anyway, so that they may grow.

This son was a product of the control of his parents, cared for and supported financially. As result he did not grow, and became shipwrecked, a direct result of the same controlling influences mentioned in this thread.