I believe in the upc ministers are obligated to sign a statement that they will teach and practice tithing. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. What kind of help is he looking for?
licensed upc ministers are expected to commit to tithing but there are no rules saying they must teach tithing to the church they pastor that I know of.
I had a 4 hour breakfast visit with a UPC pastor/presbyter today. It was VERRRRY interesting. He wants our help, but I told him there can be NO situations with our tithing differences. We are praying with him about a "compromise" on his part to help there. He mentioned the "God robber" thing and I told him that he could have a "God robber" working in his congregation.(me). He will have to back off on that rhetoric to have us help him.
I showed him my take on the Law(no partial Law). That we are not under it, so Mal. doesnt apply. He saw exactly where I was coming from. I will keep you guys informed about it. I am hoping for a "breakthrough" for us in the UPC.(this man is an elder and very well known in the area)
I am glad you are getting to talk this important issue of tithing I am a pro tither and I believe tithing is a good discipline, but I do think that it should be freewill and led by God giving. Many of the points you have made on this thread I think would at least make people rethink their position. I don't think we should drop the teaching of tithing, but I certainly think people's approach to is needs much improvement.
We need to have open dialogue with those we disagree with in order for us to become more doctrinly true. I even think we should be more eager to open our Bibles with trinitarians in a more brotherly way. I am not saying that we agree with false teaching, but if I will not listen to what they have to say why should they listen to what I have say.
I am glad you are getting to talk this important issue of tithing I am a pro tither and I believe tithing is a good discipline, but I do think that it should be freewill and led by God giving. Many of the points you have made on this thread I think would at least make people rethink their position. I don't think we should drop the teaching of tithing, but I certainly think people's approach to is needs much improvement.
We need to have open dialogue with those we disagree with in order for us to become more doctrinly true. I even think we should be more eager to open our Bibles with trinitarians in a more brotherly way. I am not saying that we agree with false teaching, but if I will not listen to what they have to say why should they listen to what I have say.
I appreciate your attitude on this. It's better than my former pastor who said, "I don't like going to church with thieves!" from the pulpit. How could he forget that those who are lagging in their giving might truly be going through a hard time and also feel horrible that they aren't giving as much as they like? I'm still blown away by this.
However, there certainly is nothing "wrong" with giving 10% to the work of God! As you said it can be a good discipline. But why can't the pro-tithers teach people to take baby steps, like starting out at giving just one percent? Then later they can gradually add a percentage or two until they finally reach 10%. But no! We have to throw Malachi's curse at them!! Shame on all who do that!! SHAME!! You are a disgrace to the ministry!
Last edited by Originalist; 10-14-2014 at 09:38 PM.
I am glad you are getting to talk this important issue of tithing I am a pro tither and I believe tithing is a good discipline, but I do think that it should be freewill and led by God giving. Many of the points you have made on this thread I think would at least make people rethink their position. I don't think we should drop the teaching of tithing, but I certainly think people's approach to is needs much improvement.
We need to have open dialogue with those we disagree with in order for us to become more doctrinly true. I even think we should be more eager to open our Bibles with trinitarians in a more brotherly way. I am not saying that we agree with false teaching, but if I will not listen to what they have to say why should they listen to what I have say.
Amen, I proposed to him having a night a month for an open forum on various beliefs. he may consider that also.
Amen, I proposed to him having a night a month for an open forum on various beliefs. he may consider that also.
One of my former pastors did this I heard for a short time. I do believe it is a great idea but the pastor has to be prepared for this. He will find that his own PERSONAL OPINIONS will be challenged and can't throw people in the lake for doing it.
If all pastors did this, it would greatly help people understand the Word and will be able to use it better to fight the devil.
__________________
Philippians 2:12 - ...Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism
1 Corinthians 1:10 - Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith ...
One of my former pastors did this I heard for a short time. I do believe it is a great idea but the pastor has to be prepared for this. He will find that his own PERSONAL OPINIONS will be challenged and can't throw people in the lake for doing it.
If all pastors did this, it would greatly help people understand the Word and will be able to use it better to fight the devil.
I think it is a great way to "fix" some doctrines and restore some disgruntled saints. Only pastors that genuinely care about others would do this though. Those that would not just see the saints as heads of cattle or LITERAL sheep. They just say..."disagree and its hell", nonchalantly.
Only pastors that genuinely care about others would do this though.
Rephrase - Only pastors that have the love of God(charity) for others would do this.
See in my book those people who don't have love for the people don't even deserve to be called pastors.
Though it might seems like I am hard on pastors, I am not. But if God called you to be a Pastor you should at least have love.
I truly believe some people God called to be a pastor and some called themselves. If everyone was called of God you would not have this segregation that exists and confusion.
__________________
Philippians 2:12 - ...Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism
1 Corinthians 1:10 - Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith ...
Rephrase - Only pastors that have the love of God(charity) for others would do this.
See in my book those people who don't have love for the people don't even deserve to be called pastors.
Though it might seems like I am hard on pastors, I am not. But if God called you to be a Pastor you should at least have love.
I truly believe some people God called to be a pastor and some called themselves. If everyone was called of God you would not have this segregation that exists and confusion.
I am one that does not believe in the authoritive type of pastor ship found in many organizations especially OP ism. But I will say this, many of those leaders and elders are only reflecting the mindset that they were indoctrinated in. The problem is the system not the calling of God.
__________________
Study the word with and open heart For if you do, Truth Will Prevail
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