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  #61  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:24 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

Another chapter from my new book.


At this point in Paul’s explanation, he compares Jesus Christ with Adam. After having contrasted the natural from the spiritual, we learn this is the reason

(45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Paul quoted Genesis Chapter 2 where we read that Adam was made a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

As much as there is a natural body and spiritual body, Adam was a living soul. This is significant because the Greek term for “soul,” “psuche,” is the root word for natural, “psuchikos.” Adam was a natural man. Jesus, the last Adam, is a spiritual man.

It is at this point that some have proposed Jesus Christ’s flesh was not of the earth when He was born in Bethlehem. They claim that Mary merely incubated the child, whereas the Bible states that she conceived. Conception involves a woman’s egg being fertilized by seed. Simply based on the term, “conceived,” we understand that Mary contributed to the flesh of Jesus Christ, and did not merely incubate the unborn Jesus.

So, why, then, do we read that Jesus was spiritual when speaking about natural versus spiritual bodies? If Mary contributed to His flesh, then why would it not be natural flesh?
The answer lies in the fact that this chapter is speaking about Jesus Christ’s resurrected body, which was transformed from being natural to spiritual in nature. Since the chapter is about resurrection, it stands to reason that Christ’s spiritual body is the risen body, and is the type of body we shall have when our resurrection takes place.

The fact has been established that there is indeed a natural body. The natural body is what is made alive by natural life, which is the essence of what a soul is – a naturally living creature. There is life that is of nature, the sort of life that God set in motion in the world. Such a life is mortal and susceptible to inevitably die if sin was introduced into the picture – which it was.

When Paul said that the last Adam was made a quickening spirit, we are to understand that he was not just alive, but could give life to others. Jesus spoke of making people alive in the resurrection.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

John 5:25-29 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (26) For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. (28) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This shows us that Jesus was a genuine human being as much as Adam was, being categorized beside Adam, but contrasted in being a spiritual man as opposed to natural due to the resurrection.

(46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

It has been proposed that the reference to the last days points to the end of the natural order of Law-keeping under the Old Covenant, with Jesus being the last man. He is the last of anyone who will ever be the federal head of humanity as Adam first was. There will be no more “Adams”. And some feel Job insinuated this fact.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

The latter day is the last day. It is the Last Covenant, the New Covenant. First is the old and then comes the new.

Jesus was said to have made Himself known in the end of the world.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

This also shows us that Jesus is the Holy Spirit in human form, showing us that indeed God is one.

When we read He is a quickening Spirit, there is the sense of pneuma, the term spirit in Greek. This does not mean He abandoned his physical body in the resurrection, for He most certainly did not, as per the basis of the entire chapter. His body is not alive due to natural reasons. He is not susceptible to death any more. And He was raised immortal and spiritual in order to raise us up with spiritual, immortal bodies in our resurrection. Paul simply explained that there is a natural and spiritual body, and Christ resurrected with a spiritual body – a body animated by spirit. We shall be raised incorruptible as well.
This spiritual body was not the first, though superior in comparison with what was first in bodies. Jesus, Himself, existed in a natural body before His death. He gained a spiritual body in His resurrection. This, too, shall be our experience!

Adam was given dominion over the earth and all its creatures. Jesus is much more than that! He is Lord of angels, the Church and the world as well. This is not speaking of Christ’s flesh being heavenly. Again, it is speaking of His resurrection body that was rendered immortal and spiritual. If Christ’s flesh was not like ours in His death and burial, then we could never have identified with His death and burial.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

When Adam came up from the ground in his creation, all his children would be housed by earthen bodies as he was. Jesus Christ was raised from the ground, although from a tomb. And that spiritual body is the same sort of body that we shall possess once the resurrection occurs.

(48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. (49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also be r the image of the heavenly.

The point is that we shall have the same sort of Body Jesus had when He resurrected. This fact, too, shows the error of those who reject the concept of a physical resurrection for church members. How can Paul state that we shall bear the image of the heavenly, in reference to the body with which Jesus resurrected, if there is no physical resurrection of the saints?
Your doctrine needs to be routed out from apostolic circles!
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"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."

Last edited by mfblume; 11-02-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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  #62  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:25 AM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

The Bible says there is a difference between the physical and the spiritual. There’s also a difference between the first man Adam and the second man Adam Jesus Christ. We were born in the physical but we’re raised spiritual. (Referencing 1 Corinthians 15) now is the raising just when we die? Or is it when we receive the Holy Ghost. The moment you receive the spirit of God you are raised to new life, Paul said behold all things become new, we reign as king and priest right now, not when we die. The dominion Adam has in the garden we have with the Holy Ghost, I just don’t understand why this spiritual gift GOD gave us, is turning into all this physical Old Testament stuff when we die.
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  #63  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:29 AM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

Your going to have to wait a little bit, I’m getting service done on my vehicle. I’ll be back in a little bit.
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  #64  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:31 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
The Bible says there is a difference between the physical and the spiritual.
That is not the contrast being made, brother. I already stated this but you could not have reached that point in my notes yet. I will hold off for a while for you to catch up.

It is NATURAL versus SPIRITUAL. Not PHYSICAL versus SPIRITUAL

Quote:
There’s also a difference between the first man Adam and the second man Adam Jesus Christ. We were born in the physical but we’re raised spiritual. (Referencing 1 Corinthians 15) now is the raising just when we die? Or is it when we receive the Holy Ghost. The moment you receive the spirit of God you are raised to new life, Paul said behold all things become new, we reign as king and priest right now, not when we die. The dominion Adam has in the garden we have with the Holy Ghost, I just don’t understand why this spiritual gift GOD gave us, is turning into all this physical Old Testament stuff when we die.
Adam living physically and ruling forever is not old testament. Old Testament is old covenant. I think we forget what OLD TESTAMENT actually means sometimes.

But your overall problem and root of it all is confusing natural for physical.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."

Last edited by mfblume; 11-02-2019 at 11:47 AM.
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  #65  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:33 AM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Originally Posted by TJJJ View Post
Or we believe the Truth!

That is alright, Paul did say "After the way called Heresy, so worship I the God of my Fathers."
Stop it
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  #66  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:51 AM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Your going to have to wait a little bit, I’m getting service done on my vehicle. I’ll be back in a little bit.
Really, hope you found a good honest mechanic.
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  #67  
Old 11-02-2019, 02:09 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Your going to have to wait a little bit, I’m getting service done on my vehicle. I’ll be back in a little bit.
Have you and I ever met before?
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  #68  
Old 11-02-2019, 02:17 PM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Have you and I ever met before?
Here we go...
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  #69  
Old 11-02-2019, 02:18 PM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Another chapter from my new book.


At this point in Paul’s explanation, he compares Jesus Christ with Adam. After having contrasted the natural from the spiritual, we learn this is the reason

(45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Paul quoted Genesis Chapter 2 where we read that Adam was made a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

As much as there is a natural body and spiritual body, Adam was a living soul. This is significant because the Greek term for “soul,” “psuche,” is the root word for natural, “psuchikos.” Adam was a natural man. Jesus, the last Adam, is a spiritual man.

It is at this point that some have proposed Jesus Christ’s flesh was not of the earth when He was born in Bethlehem. They claim that Mary merely incubated the child, whereas the Bible states that she conceived. Conception involves a woman’s egg being fertilized by seed. Simply based on the term, “conceived,” we understand that Mary contributed to the flesh of Jesus Christ, and did not merely incubate the unborn Jesus.

So, why, then, do we read that Jesus was spiritual when speaking about natural versus spiritual bodies? If Mary contributed to His flesh, then why would it not be natural flesh?
The answer lies in the fact that this chapter is speaking about Jesus Christ’s resurrected body, which was transformed from being natural to spiritual in nature. Since the chapter is about resurrection, it stands to reason that Christ’s spiritual body is the risen body, and is the type of body we shall have when our resurrection takes place.

The fact has been established that there is indeed a natural body. The natural body is what is made alive by natural life, which is the essence of what a soul is – a naturally living creature. There is life that is of nature, the sort of life that God set in motion in the world. Such a life is mortal and susceptible to inevitably die if sin was introduced into the picture – which it was.

When Paul said that the last Adam was made a quickening spirit, we are to understand that he was not just alive, but could give life to others. Jesus spoke of making people alive in the resurrection.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

John 5:25-29 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (26) For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. (28) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This shows us that Jesus was a genuine human being as much as Adam was, being categorized beside Adam, but contrasted in being a spiritual man as opposed to natural due to the resurrection.

(46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

It has been proposed that the reference to the last days points to the end of the natural order of Law-keeping under the Old Covenant, with Jesus being the last man. He is the last of anyone who will ever be the federal head of humanity as Adam first was. There will be no more “Adams”. And some feel Job insinuated this fact.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

The latter day is the last day. It is the Last Covenant, the New Covenant. First is the old and then comes the new.

Jesus was said to have made Himself known in the end of the world.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

This also shows us that Jesus is the Holy Spirit in human form, showing us that indeed God is one.

When we read He is a quickening Spirit, there is the sense of pneuma, the term spirit in Greek. This does not mean He abandoned his physical body in the resurrection, for He most certainly did not, as per the basis of the entire chapter. His body is not alive due to natural reasons. He is not susceptible to death any more. And He was raised immortal and spiritual in order to raise us up with spiritual, immortal bodies in our resurrection. Paul simply explained that there is a natural and spiritual body, and Christ resurrected with a spiritual body – a body animated by spirit. We shall be raised incorruptible as well.
This spiritual body was not the first, though superior in comparison with what was first in bodies. Jesus, Himself, existed in a natural body before His death. He gained a spiritual body in His resurrection. This, too, shall be our experience!

Adam was given dominion over the earth and all its creatures. Jesus is much more than that! He is Lord of angels, the Church and the world as well. This is not speaking of Christ’s flesh being heavenly. Again, it is speaking of His resurrection body that was rendered immortal and spiritual. If Christ’s flesh was not like ours in His death and burial, then we could never have identified with His death and burial.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

When Adam came up from the ground in his creation, all his children would be housed by earthen bodies as he was. Jesus Christ was raised from the ground, although from a tomb. And that spiritual body is the same sort of body that we shall possess once the resurrection occurs.

(48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. (49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also be r the image of the heavenly.

The point is that we shall have the same sort of Body Jesus had when He resurrected. This fact, too, shows the error of those who reject the concept of a physical resurrection for church members. How can Paul state that we shall bear the image of the heavenly, in reference to the body with which Jesus resurrected, if there is no physical resurrection of the saints?
Your doctrine needs to be routed out from apostolic circles!
So now you are into witch hunts?

Mike, Mike, you are jousting at windmills, Don Coyote!

The self called paladin of Pentecost is going to rout this doctrine? C'mon, who you kidding?

The discussion about this predates you and I. My 82 year old dad, retired UPC, was talking to me about it the other day. He remembers the discussions on this 40 years ago. He is the one that told me that they called the guys in the midwest "Dualies".

This is a mainly midwest doctrine that you subscribe to, lots of guys on the west coast don't believe it like you do. Sorry.
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  #70  
Old 11-02-2019, 02:20 PM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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