Revoked Baptism?

Digging4Truth · #1 03-12-2007, 06:03 AM

Heard this weekend....

A young man came to a church wanting to be baptized.

He was refused the baptism.

He is living with his girlfriend.

He was told "baptism remits sin... but sin revokes baptism" and that he was refused the baptism until he and his girlfriend seperated housing or got married.

Your thoughts?

Barb · #2 03-12-2007, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Heard this weekend....

A young man came to a church wanting to be baptized.

He was refused the baptism.

He is living with his girlfriend.

He was told "baptism remits sin... but sin revokes baptism" and that he was refused the baptism until he and his girlfriend seperated housing or got married.

Your thoughts?

Hmmm...heard of this happening one other time, but not for that reason. I do know that each elder will do what he determines is best at the moment. Because I don't know full details re this issue, I can't say whether this was right or wrong.

Guess it is between God and the elder, and the elder and the one whom he refused baptism.

Digging4Truth · #3 03-12-2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb

Hmmm...heard of this happening one other time, but not for that reason. I do know that each elder will do what he determines is best at the moment. Because I don't know full details re this issue, I can't say whether this was right or wrong.

Guess it is between God and the elder, and the elder and the one whom he refused baptism.

Well I was totally blown away. I have NEVER heard anything like this being done.

To me... "Ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost has come upon you" We are instructed to repent and be baptized and then we would receive the Holy Ghost.

It seems to me that one does not possess the power over sin they need until they have received the Holy Ghost and most people repent and are baptized before they receive the Holy Ghost... Seems to me like the boy is in a catch 22.

It may not sound like it but I am open to hear some good reaoning on this but so far I can't see where this is a good thing.

The carnal mind is enmity against God... granted... It is not subject to the law of God... again... granted... but... neither indeed can it be.

The unregenerated mind cannot be subject to the law of God. It takes a new birth... to me at least.

I would definitely like to hear some additional thoughts on this.

Sherri · #4 03-12-2007, 06:57 AM

We won't baptize anyone who is living in sin. We talk to them and if they agree to separate until marriage, then we would. But if they are planning to continue living together, then we don't. We have run into this several times in this new church. It's amazing how many people don't think it's a big deal anymore!

Old Paths · #5 03-12-2007, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Well I was totally blown away. I have NEVER heard anything like this being done.

To me... "Ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost has come upon you" We are instructed to repent and be baptized and then we would receive the Holy Ghost.

It seems to me that one does not possess the power over sin they need until they have received the Holy Ghost and most people repent and are baptized before they receive the Holy Ghost... Seems to me like the boy is in a catch 22.

It may not sound like it but I am open to hear some good reaoning on this but so far I can't see where this is a good thing.

The carnal mind is enmity against God... granted... It is not subject to the law of God... again... granted... but... neither indeed can it be.

The unregenerated mind cannot be subject to the law of God. It takes a new birth... to me at least.

I would definitely like to hear some additional thoughts on this.

John the Baptist evidently didn't know "that one does not possess the power over sin they need until they have received the Holy Ghost", because he DEMANDED CHANGE before water baptism.

Matt 3:7-10
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
KJV

And what about Jesus to the woman in John 8?

John 8:11

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
KJV

Water baptism in Jesus Name is for REPENTANT folks only.

Barb · #6 03-12-2007, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Well I was totally blown away. I have NEVER heard anything like this being done.

To me... "Ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost has come upon you" We are instructed to repent and be baptized and then we would receive the Holy Ghost.

It seems to me that one does not possess the power over sin they need until they have received the Holy Ghost and most people repent and are baptized before they receive the Holy Ghost... Seems to me like the boy is in a catch 22.

It may not sound like it but I am open to hear some good reaoning on this but so far I can't see where this is a good thing.

The carnal mind is enmity against God... granted... It is not subject to the law of God... again... granted... but... neither indeed can it be.

The unregenerated mind cannot be subject to the law of God. It takes a new birth... to me at least.

I would definitely like to hear some additional thoughts on this.

We still don't know enough details to say the elder was wrong...

Did he ask the man about separating until marriage and he refused?!

We don't know and I won't second guess an elder...

Barb · #7 03-12-2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

We won't baptize anyone who is living in sin. We talk to them and if they agree to separate until marriage, then we would. But if they are planning to continue living together, then we don't. We have run into this several times in this new church. It's amazing how many people don't think it's a big deal anymore!

Good for you and Elder!!

LadyChocolate · #8 03-12-2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Heard this weekend....

A young man came to a church wanting to be baptized.

He was refused the baptism.

He is living with his girlfriend.

He was told "baptism remits sin... but sin revokes baptism" and that he was refused the baptism until he and his girlfriend seperated housing or got married.

Your thoughts?

Does this mean I have to get rebaptized? I mean, I was baptized many years ago and I've sinned since then, you know,too much chocolate sometimes. Seriously, I haven't lived a sinless life since I was baptized... Many times I have fallen and was very sorry for things.... but there were times that I just dove into sin.......of course I didn't stay there.....But if sin revokes baptism, then you would have to be "re" baptized??? No, I don't believe that. That was just the thought that came to mind when I read that sin revokes baptism.....

Besides, I"ve seen many that would come to church and be soo overwhelmed that they wanted everything God had for them.. They came a received the HolyGhost and wanted to be baptized.... and the pastor did baptize them.... And the look on their face after baptism was priceless.....The joy that filled them and the glow that was on their face.....Then many left with that feeling knowing that all their sins were washed away and they didn't want to return anymore.....sometimes I think we want to clean people up before we them "taste and see that the Lord is good"

Digging4Truth · #9 03-12-2007, 07:40 AM

Okay... after a few moments thought... let's discuss a little further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Paths

John the Baptist evidently didn't know "that one does not possess the power over sin they need until they have received the Holy Ghost", because he DEMANDED CHANGE before water baptism.

Matt 3:7-10
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
KJV

On this series of scripture... I don't think (nor do I feel John thought) that these men came with any intention whatsoever of being baptized. What John spoke here was speaking (to me) more to the end of the old covenant (old age) and the beginning of the new than baptismal instruction for these men.

Quote:

And what about Jesus to the woman in John 8?
John 8:11
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

At least the first example did pertain to some form of baptism. But this scriptural reference (which you have only quoted one desired scripture has more to do with those who would be her judge than being about her sin. But even in this example... while Jesus did instruct her to sin no more... the intent of the scripture is to demonstrate his forgiveness of her sin.

I understand what you are trying to say here and I do hear your basic statement but it seems that both of these scriptrues are taken out of the context of their intent and applied to this conversation. I do not totally discount your examples but they appear to be taped to the subject with scotch tape rather than being references which speak in context and intent to the subject at hand.

The scriptures you have quoted here are, IMO, reminiscent of those who don't believe in Acts 2:38 salvation quoting scripture where Jesus said "this day" will you be with me in paradise. We then explain that this is before the outpouring of the Holy Ghost and was under a different age & covenant.

Can you share any post Day of Pentecost scriptures that speak to this subject?

Digging4Truth · #10 03-12-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

Does this mean I have to get rebaptized? I mean, I was baptized many years ago and I've sinned since then, you know,too much chocolate sometimes. Seriously, I haven't lived a sinless life since I was baptized... Many times I have fallen and was very sorry for things.... but there were times that I just dove into sin.......of course I didn't stay there.....But if sin revokes baptism, then you would have to be "re" baptized??? No, I don't believe that. That was just the thought that came to mind when I read that sin revokes baptism.....

Besides, I"ve seen many that would come to church and be soo overwhelmed that they wanted everything God had for them.. They came a received the HolyGhost and wanted to be baptized.... and the pastor did baptize them.... And the look on their face after baptism was priceless.....The joy that filled them and the glow that was on their face.....Then many left with that feeling knowing that all their sins were washed away and they didn't want to return anymore.....sometimes I think we want to clean people up before we them "taste and see that the Lord is good"

Yes ma'am... this is how I felt. I was going to ask a question in my last post to OP but, hoping you don't mind, I am going to use your post to ask the questions.

Does sin revoke baptism?
Ever?
How much sin does it take to revoke a baptism?
Do any of you pastors consider it a necessary thing to rebaptize people if they have been in sin for a number of years?