Apostoic worship??

[Esaias]

The whole modern "worship extravaganza" being promoted by IHOP, the Vineyard movement, and associated acts is designed to provide the motive force behind ecumenical reunion with the Vatican. Sounds like crazy conspiracy theory? No, the people promoting these events and this whole view of worship come right out and tell you what they are doing. Listen to the Kenneth Copeland video above (he was also a speaker at IHOP's Kairos 2017 event). Listen to how he describes the Protestant Reformation, and how he and all the other ecumenicalists describe the Roman Catholic church as simply a misunderstood branch of the body of Christ.

Never mind that the Roman Catholic Church is the CHURCH OF ANTICHRIST, responsible for the murders of MILLIONS of people who rejected the papacy's claims to authority over all believers. Never mind the out and out BAAL worship that is at the CORE of Vaticanism. Never mind the MILLENNIA of sexual perversion and deviancy (you name it) that has been a common feature of the priests, monks, and bishops. Nope, it's just a big ole church split and praise the Lord Kansas City IHOP and the "new thing God is doing in these days with worship" is bringing us all back together! Kumbayah pass the smores!

[Esaias]

Hillsong wants you to join together with the Vatican. And they say it is THE WORSHIP MUSIC that is driving this new "unity"! Can't people see what's going on? They themselves admit that the music is the driving and mobilising force behind the efforts at unity with Rome!

[houston]

Don’t touch hillsong

[good samaritan]

Wed. bible study class we discussed how that David wanted to build God a house. God answered David by Nathan asking him a question, "Did I ask you to build me an house". God never asked Israel to build him an house, in fact, God did not need them to build him seeing that God dwelleth not in temples made with mans hand. It is interesting to me, although God never asked for them to build an house he goes on to tell David that his seed would build that house (dual prophecy: Jesus/Solomon).

Now where this ties into this thread. David had a heart to worship God. He did not need instructions on how to worship, but he was constantly doing acts of worship. David wanted (freewill) to build the Lord an house. Although, Davids plans may have been a little misguided, his heart was spot on. The idea that we must have a scripture to instruct the exact protocol of worship and singing seems absurd. Although, there are many precedents in scripture of how people worshiped God, I don't think there was a wrong way. So long as it is not sinful or in the flesh.

BTW, following the bible study Wed. night, without music there was an atmosphere of worship among our adult class. People raised their hands and cried out to God in praise without any pumping, all because of what the Lord showed us in his word. People seen how that David looked for an oppurtunity to praise God. It is interesting how that when Saul became king he spent most of his time trying to secure his throne, but David on the other hand when he was officially coronated and established he felt like bulding God a house (throne). Saul was busy worrying about his own throne, but David was concerned about God's throne. David said he wanted to build God and house and then God said that he would build David and house. Isn't God awesome!!!

If we seek to please God, then He will bless and take care of us. Something is wrong when we need music to worship God. Instead we get to worship God with music. We need to get the horse back in front of the cart. Run, dance, shout,lay flat prostate, whatever we do, but we must do it from the heart to the glory of God. How can you not be demonstrative in worship when you are excited and joyous because of the God you serve.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The idea that we must have a scripture to instruct the exact protocol of worship and singing seems absurd. Although, there are many precedents in scripture of how people worshiped God, I don't think there was a wrong way. So long as it is not sinful or in the flesh.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Therefore, there is no such thing as genuine faith that is not derived from the word of God. Our worship must be done in faith. Whatever is without faith, is sin. Therefore, our worship is sin if it is without faith. Which in turn means it must be biblical, indeed it must be biblically directed and biblically informed, otherwise it cannot be in faith. And without faith it is impossible to please God.

So, yes, we need to let God teach us how to worship him, and His divine revelation is the Bible. Therefore, our worship must be Bible based and Bible derived and Bible compliant.

The Spirit is not given in order to justify us in doing whatever we feel like doing. The Spirit is given in order to lead us and guide us into all truth ("Thy word is truth" Jesus said). The Spirit is given to direct our heart and life, empowering us to live a life of God manifestation. Meaning the life of God manifesting in and through our life, our actions, our worship, everything we do. The Spirit enables us to experience what the Bible reveals.

There most certainly are wrong ways to worship God. Jesus said the Pharisees' worship was in vain, it was empty, pointless, useless, and unacceptable to God. Why? Because they taught as doctrine the commandments of men. In other words, they took their own ideas and taught them as though they were the ideas of God, acceptable to God, the proper method to serve God, etc. That man-made worship of God is declared by Jesus to be vain. He said they were hypocrites, they honoured God with their mouths but their hearts were far away from God. Why? What determined that to be the case? It was because their religion, their worship, was man created, it was not God created. It was man directed, not God directed. It was of man, not of God.

What is "of God"? that which God has revealed through His word. It must be this way, because apart from the Scripture there is no way to identify what is truly of God.

Our salvation must match the salvation described in the Bible. Our faith must match the faith described in the Bible. Our worship, likewise, must match the worship described in the Bible.

Otherwise, we are just doing our own thing and presuming God is pleased with it, with no evidence such is actually the case.

The rest of your post was spot on.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

"Soaking" is not Pentecostal. It is Toronto Airport Vineyard stuff. Same group that gave the world "Holy Laughter and New Wine Revival" back in the 90s. What Aquila described as "prayer meeting" is not "soaking prayer".

Here's a short description of how to enter into soaking prayer. Can you elaborate on what makes the prayer meetings I described different from soaking prayer?

How to Soak in God’s Presence

“Jesus says, ‘Ask and you will receive’. We’re very good at the asking part but how about the ‘receiving’? If we are the ones who are dong all the talking, it’s a pretty one-way conversation. Soaking is the listening part of our conversation with Him. It’s laying aside time to lie down and receive from Him.” --CTF Ministries

“When we discipline ourselves to behold Jesus in every circumstance, a transformation occurs. We learn how to sit, wait and watch for Him every day. The Holy Spirit teaches us about face-to-face, personal adoration; it comes from a worship that flows from a place of rest. When we sit at Jesus’ feet and just be, as Mary did, we behold Him. Worship cannot come out of striving, but out of stillness. Spending time with God gives us a touch from Him - this touch is such a pleasure that it will cause a spirit of adoration to well up in us, and overflow.” --Graham Cooke

There is joy in the life of those who practice soaking prayer. It’s time to lay your burdens at the feet of Jesus. It’s time to find rest for your soul in 2007. It’s time to be still and know that He is God. It may take a little effort to quiet your racing thoughts, but it’s well worth the effort. Let Him lead you beside still waters. Take time to meditate on the following Scriptures:

“Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light” (Matthew 11:28-30).

“The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul” (Psalms 23:1-3).

”When it comes to real devotion, come with nothing to do except to sit and learn how to wait, rest and be. Be still. Fill your mind with Jesus. Faith and stillness are sustenance for your spirit, so learn to focus on Jesus. When your mind wanders off, bring it back. Retrain it; it’s had years of having its own way. Renewing your spirit and your mind is exciting and has incredible fruit. Worship becomes natural for you, and the peace of God wells up in your heart. God’s perspective can be seen more quickly.” --Graham Cooke”

• Find a quiet place - A peaceful environment helps you to become peaceful on the inside.

• Listen to worship music - You may want to use quiet instrumental or quiet worship music. There is so much good soaking music available (www.soaking.net is an excellent resource).

• Quiet down your busy thoughts - Initially your thoughts can be racing all over, but know that the Lord is with you. Turn your attention to Him. Wait for your thoughts to settle.

• Invite the Holy Spirit to come and soak you in His presence - Surrender your mind, body and soul in prayer to the Holy Spirit. Humble yourself before Him.

• Focus on the Lord’s presence - Open your heart to God. You are learning to abide in Him. You are learning to focus on Him and His presence.

• Rest in faith and believe that God is working within you - It isn’t about what you can accomplish through your efforts; it’s about what God is doing in you.

• Give time to soaking in God’s presence - The more time you can spend in His presence, the better. Start with 20 minutes in His presence. You will find as you do this, in a very short time you will want to spend more time in His presence.

• Watch as God changes you - You will leave refreshed and full of the Holy Spirit. Your life will be different because God is changing you through soaking in His presence. You will have an impact on the world around you as you carry God’s presence with you wherever you go.

“Intimacy with God is the key to fruitfulness in every area of our lives. As we become more aware of His presence in us… so do other people. As we become more affected by His presence in us… so do those around us. By taking time in the secret place with God, we start to walk by the spirit in everyday life. We find that rather than striving to achieve things for God, He is building His kingdom through us.” --CTF Ministries

Begin today by soaking for at least 20 minutes in God’s presence. Practice the above points and watch what God does. Soaking prayer will have a transforming effect in your life.

“Soaking is a dedication: ‘God, this is time just for you.’ Soaking is an invitation: ‘God, do what you want to in me.’ Soaking is an expectation: ‘Thank you, Father, for what you are accomplishing as I rest in you.’ We come to Him like little children believing that He has good things for us. ‘If you then know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him.” --CTF Ministries

Together in the Harvest,

Here's a short video on soaking prayer:

[n david]

Originally Posted by houston

Don’t touch hillsong

Used to love Hillsong. Not so much anymore, thanks to Lentz and just an oversaturation of them.

You know they curse on one of their newer songs?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hillsong wants you to join together with the Vatican. And they say it is THE WORSHIP MUSIC that is driving this new "unity"! Can't people see what's going on? They themselves admit that the music is the driving and mobilising force behind the efforts at unity with Rome!

I think we can all agree that most of us (including myself) are not big supporters of Hillsong, IHOP, Vineyard, or the Vatican. I'm sure most of us can point out and agree upon their doctrinal errors. So, when Hillsong says it is the worship music that is driving this new unity, why should we believe them? Personally, I believe a spirit is behind it. Might that spirit be using music as a tool in some way? Perhaps. But music is just a tool. It is neither good nor evil. It is the spirit and attitude behind the music that makes music good or evil. A born again Apostolic saint of God can sing a song written and produced by ecumenical Trinitarians and the song be anointed and blessed. Why? Because the saint's heart is right. An ecumenical Trinitarian can sing a song written and produced by a mightily anointed Apostolic musician... and the song not be anointed and completely worldly. The difference is the spirit and attitude behind the music and song.

At least, that's my take on it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Wed. bible study class we discussed how that David wanted to build God a house. God answered David by Nathan asking him a question, "Did I ask you to build me an house". God never asked Israel to build him an house, in fact, God did not need them to build him seeing that God dwelleth not in temples made with mans hand. It is interesting to me, although God never asked for them to build an house he goes on to tell David that his seed would build that house (dual prophecy: Jesus/Solomon).

Now where this ties into this thread. David had a heart to worship God. He did not need instructions on how to worship, but he was constantly doing acts of worship. David wanted (freewill) to build the Lord an house. Although, Davids plans may have been a little misguided, his heart was spot on. The idea that we must have a scripture to instruct the exact protocol of worship and singing seems absurd. Although, there are many precedents in scripture of how people worshiped God, I don't think there was a wrong way. So long as it is not sinful or in the flesh.

BTW, following the bible study Wed. night, without music there was an atmosphere of worship among our adult class. People raised their hands and cried out to God in praise without any pumping, all because of what the Lord showed us in his word. People seen how that David looked for an oppurtunity to praise God. It is interesting how that when Saul became king he spent most of his time trying to secure his throne, but David on the other hand when he was officially coronated and established he felt like bulding God a house (throne). Saul was busy worrying about his own throne, but David was concerned about God's throne. David said he wanted to build God and house and then God said that he would build David and house. Isn't God awesome!!!

If we seek to please God, then He will bless and take care of us. Something is wrong when we need music to worship God. Instead we get to worship God with music. We need to get the horse back in front of the cart. Run, dance, shout,lay flat prostate, whatever we do, but we must do it from the heart to the glory of God. How can you not be demonstrative in worship when you are excited and joyous because of the God you serve.

Amen.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Used to love Hillsong. Not so much anymore, thanks to Lentz and just an oversaturation of them.

You know they curse on one of their newer songs?

Do you remember which song?