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  #121  
Old 04-16-2019, 09:14 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Proverbs 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick. only when desire is fulfilled it is the tree of life.


The Bible is written to be relevant to the reader. We are presented with a BLESSED HOPE.

Titus 2:11-13

11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

The blessed hope is the GLORIOUS APPPEARING of the Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I understand that if one believes Jesus came in 70ad and fulfilled that scripture THEN it would have NO RELEVANCE for anyone in the future.

So I have this hope while you do not.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 04-16-2019 at 09:17 AM.
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  #122  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:11 AM
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I cant figure what is so horrible about "futurism". In it every generation has prophecy they can hope to see come to pass, the greatest Christs coming. Preterism leaves no relevance to ANYONE living after the first century. Partial preterism promotes a "gap" theory of 2000 years from the first century till the rapture. It's effect is exactly that of pre trib rapture. No prophecy to be watching for....just Christ's coming.
The greatest enemy of the early church was the religious leaders in Jerusalem and the Jewish leaders outside of Jerusalem.
Not Rome or any of the outside countries. The biggest hinderance to the new church was those religious leaders. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple was what Christ taught the early church fathers to look for. Not some occurrence 2000 + years in the future.

The New Jerusalem coming down from heaven in Revelation was the type of the kingdom of God being on earth now and forever. It is a spiritual kingdom and always will be. When we die we go strait to be with the Lord. Or in the case of the sinner, straight to Hell.

Our hope is not in some story of some future tribulation our hope is in Christ Jesus right now.
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  #123  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:21 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

I never said my hope was in the great tribulation. I said the Christians hope is in the glorious APPEARING of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ. That takes place after the great tribulation.

Preterism obviously teaches Jesus came in 70ad. I say if so the Bible is not for us today. Jesus came and took the Church to Heaven so what relevance could Jesus or scripture have for us?

It makes Jesus doctrine obsolete for the last 2000 years.
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  #124  
Old 04-17-2019, 09:47 AM
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I never said my hope was in the great tribulation. I said the Christians hope is in the glorious APPEARING of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ. That takes place after the great tribulation.

Preterism obviously teaches Jesus came in 70ad. I say if so the Bible is not for us today. Jesus came and took the Church to Heaven so what relevance could Jesus or scripture have for us?

It makes Jesus doctrine obsolete for the last 2000 years.
I understand your concern, but it may be due to misunderstanding of what is proposed. There is time beyond AD70 which is where we are, and the Bible is still for us.

I personally do not believe the coming of the Lord in AD70 was anything more than a coming in a localized judgement.

We are in, “the ages to come.”


Eph 2:6....And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7....That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus
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  #125  
Old 04-17-2019, 10:27 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

Quote:
I understand your concern, but it may be due to misunderstanding of what is proposed. There is time beyond AD70 which is where we are, and the Bible is still for us.
Dom and Drummer propose Christ came and took the saints to Heaven in 70ad. Good to hear you dont.

Quote:
I personally do not believe the coming of the Lord in AD70 was anything more than a coming in a localized judgement.
I can see that.

Quote:
We are in, “the ages to come.”


Eph 2:6....And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7....That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus
I believe we are in a "preview" of the ages to come. The "earnest" of our inheritance.

Ephesians 1:13-14

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
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  #126  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:43 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

Can’t wait to see Michael Gibson’s third temple law system reinstated Bible study.
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  #127  
Old 04-18-2019, 07:05 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

Quote:
Dom

This thread has as its topic YOUR video, concerning YOUR doctrine. Pookey in the other thread about YOUR video, gave you a good teaching stamp of approval. Maybe Pookey is your relative, or you under a different nick. But, you were quick to give an affirmative to Pookey.
This is how obsessed you are with attacking anything I say. If someone says something that agrees with something I say you assume its me under another name! Thats hilarious!
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  #128  
Old 04-18-2019, 09:28 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

Since no explanation was given from the preterist view concerning the meaning of the 5th trumpet judgement I brought this over from Pret Central.

http://www.preteristcentral.com/Reve...v.%209-11.html

Rev. 9:1, 11 – Roman Emperor, Angel of the Bottomless Pit

The last three trumpets are described as three “woes” (Rev. 8:13; 9:12; 11:14). The fifth trumpet introduces the first woe. John sees a star fall from heaven to earth; the star is given the key of the bottomless pit. He opens the pit and great billows of smoke that darken the air boil forth. From the smoke come locusts shaped like “scorpion-centaurs” with the bodies of horses but tails of scorpions. The locusts form a great army. But unlike locusts, which denude the land of vegetation, this army denudes the land of men. Yet not all men, but only those men what have not the seal of God upon their foreheads. They have as king over them the angel (star) of the bottomless pit.

The bottomless pit is Hades Tartarus, the interim abode of the wicked dead. Because the poisonous gases it emitted killed all birds that flew above its mouth, the Greeks and Romans called the entrance to Hades Avernus (“birdless”). It is represented by the poets as a crater whose mouth holds a lake that was believed to be the entrance to the underworld.[1] The connection with the present imagery is obvious. The Old Testament contains many passages describing the “pit” as the place to which the defeated armies of the uncircumcised descend (Isa. 14:15, 19; Ezek. 32:18-32). As the saints are citizens of heaven, the Gentiles were citizens of hell. The bottomless pit therefore was to the world spiritually, what the distant reaches of the Mediterranean Sea were geographically, and stands as a symbol of heathendom. Hence, the locust army here represents the forces of heathendom, the Roman army. The key to the bottomless pit represents the governmental authority and power of the empire. The king who holds the key and commands the legions is the Roman emperor, Nero, whose name is given in Greek “Apollyon” (destroyer), but in Hebrew is “Abaddon” (destruction), the same word used for Sheol and the pit (Job 26:6; Prov. 15:11; 27:20).

Taken together, the imagery is best understood as the Roman invasion of Judea, as seen from the fact that they are charged to kill only those who refused the gospel call when it went through Palestine, sealing the 144,000. The army is given power as scorpions to torment men for five months. John states that in those days men would “seek death, and shall not find it” (v. 5, 6). This may refer to the summer campaign following the fall of Galilee, or look ahead to the siege of Jerusalem, which lasted five months (Nisan 14-Elul 8). Unable to gain Jerusalem’s walls, the Romans shut the inhabitants up within the city to weaken their defenses, while famine devoured the inhabitants.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 04-18-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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  #129  
Old 04-18-2019, 12:40 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

A few comments.

Quote:
The bottomless pit therefore was to the world spiritually, what the distant reaches of the Mediterranean Sea were geographically, and stands as a symbol of heathendom.
If the "bottomless pit" is simply a symbol of "heathendom" satan will be very happy.

Why?

Rev. 19:1-3

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Because after the battle of Armageddon when his beast and false prophet are thrown into Gehenna fire and their armies are slain by the sword HE will be chained up WHERE?

IN HEATHENDOM!

So he escapes justice to continue his work among the heathen. Hmmmm.

I stand by what I said in the video. The bottomless pit is a literal place somewhere inside the Earth.

Quote:
Hence, the locust army here represents the forces of heathendom, the Roman army. The key to the bottomless pit represents the governmental authority and power of the empire.
So accordingly how could the Roman army which came from the bottomless pit (heathendom) be commanded NOT to kill anyone? Only to torment them 5 months? They were trained to kill, that was their job.

It is said there was a 5 month siege of Jerusalem where many Jews died. If their job was to NOT KILL men that could not have been the fulfillment IMO.

Quote:
Taken together, the imagery is best understood as the Roman invasion of Judea, as seen from the fact that they are charged to kill only those who refused the gospel call when it went through Palestine, sealing the 144,000.
But the locusts were not commanded to KILL anyone. Only to torment men for 5 months.

I stand by what I said on the video. The locust army is probably literal demons coming out of the bottomless pit.
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  #130  
Old 04-19-2019, 03:17 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
A few comments.



If the "bottomless pit" is simply a symbol of "heathendom" satan will be very happy.

Why?

Rev. 19:1-3

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Because after the battle of Armageddon when his beast and false prophet are thrown into Gehenna fire and their armies are slain by the sword HE will be chained up WHERE?

IN HEATHENDOM!

So he escapes justice to continue his work among the heathen. Hmmmm.

I stand by what I said in the video. The bottomless pit is a literal place somewhere inside the Earth.



So accordingly how could the Roman army which came from the bottomless pit (heathendom) be commanded NOT to kill anyone? Only to torment them 5 months? They were trained to kill, that was their job.

It is said there was a 5 month siege of Jerusalem where many Jews died. If their job was to NOT KILL men that could not have been the fulfillment IMO.



But the locusts were not commanded to KILL anyone. Only to torment men for 5 months.

I stand by what I said on the video. The locust army is probably literal demons coming out of the bottomless pit.
You stand by what you said? You said there is a literal bottomless pit (not in a spirtual realm) but in a physical reach out and touch realm. Mike I await your Bible study on the reinstated third temple law system.
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