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  #21  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:29 PM
Dedicated Mind Dedicated Mind is offline
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Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. I John 3:15
you mean john 4:15. Could there be a difference between God dwelling in you and the holy ghost dwelling in you through spirit baptism?

Last edited by Dedicated Mind; 05-08-2011 at 11:32 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:51 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Aside from DA's status, I know many charismatics that believe initial evidence of the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues.
Then I would say they are Pentecostal, not Charismatic
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #23  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:54 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
But the modern versions of Oneness are wittling away great truth so that soon one wont be able to tell much difference between Oneness and Trinity imo.
That is so far from the truth brother you don't even realize it. Oneness has at it's core the view that God is One Person not Three. The so called "modern version" has in no way changed that nor the idea that Jesus is God. It simply seeks to clarify that Oneness sees a distinction between Father and Son. It's NOT a step in the direction of the Trinity
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #24  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:56 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Posts: 45,774
Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Badejo View Post
The problem with the initial evidence doctrine is that if one really holds to it then everyone who has never spoken in tongues is lost, no exceptions. That and of course that it is absent from scripture.
First of all, that is not true.

Second, why is that a problem? Everyone draws a line somewhere except the Universal Reconciliationists
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #25  
Old 05-09-2011, 07:33 AM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind View Post
you mean john 4:15. Could there be a difference between God dwelling in you and the holy ghost dwelling in you through spirit baptism?
I would love to see proof of that by the scriptures. The only place we can find out WHEN someone receives the Spirit is the book of Acts, as far as I can tell. The Spirit is given to those who have faith but the real question lies in WHEN it happens. Does it happen at faith? Frankly, I don't see any difference in the baptism of the Spirit and the initial indwelling of the Spirit.

1 John 4:14 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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  #26  
Old 05-09-2011, 07:39 AM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Then I would say they are Pentecostal, not Charismatic
That would be correct.
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  #27  
Old 05-09-2011, 07:39 AM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
First of all, that is not true.

Second, why is that a problem? Everyone draws a line somewhere except the Universal Reconciliationists
yep...
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  #28  
Old 05-09-2011, 07:44 AM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
That is so far from the truth brother you don't even realize it. Oneness has at it's core the view that God is One Person not Three. The so called "modern version" has in no way changed that nor the idea that Jesus is God. It simply seeks to clarify that Oneness sees a distinction between Father and Son. It's NOT a step in the direction of the Trinity
As Sabin would say it is not a matter of two but two what. To say there is a distinction is only begging the question of why type of distinction. In the end IMO most trinitarian theology no matter the screaming and yelling of no, creates multiple Gods. It is nothing but a hybrid form of Tritheism that says because of sharing one "........." it makes it not. Basically IMO that is nothing but a model to make it acceptable/palatable as some level monotheism.
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  #29  
Old 05-09-2011, 11:05 AM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Posts: 17,805
Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind View Post
you mean john 4:15. Could there be a difference between God dwelling in you and the holy ghost dwelling in you through spirit baptism?
When we invite Jesus into our lives, He accepts that invitation and comes in to dwell as the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Ghost Baptism (HGB) is a separate work of the Spirit which happens after He comes in to dwell. The HGB is the Spirit coming upon, or falling upon a person.

This is from page 83 of a book titled Charisma Versus Charismania by Chuck Smith copyright 1992 and describes the difference.

The Spirit and the Believer
There are three Greek prepositions used in the New Testament
to designate the different relationships of the Spirit
to the believer: para, en, and epi. In John 14:17 Jesus said
to His disciples concerning the Holy Spirit, “Ye know him;
for he dwelleth with [para] you and shall be in [en] you.”
Here a twofold relationship is expressed: para (with) and en
(in). The Holy Spirit was with us prior to our conversion. He
is the One who brought us conviction of sin and revealed
Christ as the answer. When we accepted Jesus as our Savior
and invited Him into our lives, the Holy Spirit began to
indwell us.

But God has something more—the beautiful empowering
through the epi relationship. Note that this is what
Jesus was promising His disciples just prior to His ascension.
In Luke 24:49 He said, “Behold, I send the promise of
my Father upon [epi] you” or “over you.” In Acts 1:8 He
said, “But ye shall receive power after that the Holy [Spirit]
is come upon [epi] you.”

We read in Acts 10:44 that the Holy Spirit descended
“upon” the Gentile believers in the house of Cornelius:
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy [Spirit] fell
upon [epi] all of them which heard the word.” In Acts 19:6,
when Paul laid hands upon the Ephesian believers, the
Holy Spirit came upon [epi] them.

We read in Acts 8 that Philip had gone to Samaria and
preached Christ unto them; many people believed Philip’s
preaching of the things of the kingdom of God and the
name of Jesus Christ, and they were baptized. If there is
just one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), then we must accept that
at this point the Samaritan believers were baptized by the
Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13), and the
Holy Spirit began to indwell them. It is obvious, however,
that there was yet a further relationship to the Holy Spirit
to be received, for when the church in Jerusalem heard that
the Samaritans had received the gospel, they sent Peter and
John unto them that they might pray for them to receive
the Holy Spirit, for as yet He had fallen upon [epi] none of
them.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis

Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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  #30  
Old 05-10-2011, 09:34 AM
Dedicated Mind Dedicated Mind is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,711
Re: DA No Longer an OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
When we invite Jesus into our lives, He accepts that invitation and comes in to dwell as the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Ghost Baptism (HGB) is a separate work of the Spirit which happens after He comes in to dwell. The HGB is the Spirit coming upon, or falling upon a person.

This is from page 83 of a book titled Charisma Versus Charismania by Chuck Smith copyright 1992 and describes the difference.

The Spirit and the Believer
There are three Greek prepositions used in the New Testament
to designate the different relationships of the Spirit
to the believer: para, en, and epi. In John 14:17 Jesus said
to His disciples concerning the Holy Spirit, “Ye know him;
for he dwelleth with [para] you and shall be in [en] you.”
Here a twofold relationship is expressed: para (with) and en
(in). The Holy Spirit was with us prior to our conversion. He
is the One who brought us conviction of sin and revealed
Christ as the answer. When we accepted Jesus as our Savior
and invited Him into our lives, the Holy Spirit began to
indwell us.

But God has something more—the beautiful empowering
through the epi relationship. Note that this is what
Jesus was promising His disciples just prior to His ascension.
In Luke 24:49 He said, “Behold, I send the promise of
my Father upon [epi] you” or “over you.” In Acts 1:8 He
said, “But ye shall receive power after that the Holy [Spirit]
is come upon [epi] you.”

We read in Acts 10:44 that the Holy Spirit descended
“upon” the Gentile believers in the house of Cornelius:
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy [Spirit] fell
upon [epi] all of them which heard the word.” In Acts 19:6,
when Paul laid hands upon the Ephesian believers, the
Holy Spirit came upon [epi] them.

We read in Acts 8 that Philip had gone to Samaria and
preached Christ unto them; many people believed Philip’s
preaching of the things of the kingdom of God and the
name of Jesus Christ, and they were baptized. If there is
just one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), then we must accept that
at this point the Samaritan believers were baptized by the
Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13), and the
Holy Spirit began to indwell them. It is obvious, however,
that there was yet a further relationship to the Holy Spirit
to be received, for when the church in Jerusalem heard that
the Samaritans had received the gospel, they sent Peter and
John unto them that they might pray for them to receive
the Holy Spirit, for as yet He had fallen upon [epi] none of
them.
sam, what verse or veses do you use to believe that the holy spirit indwells at faith/repentance?
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