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  #11  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:07 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

I am just glad I speak in tongues more than you all.
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:31 PM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
When taking in the whole counsel, I don't see any conclusive or emphatic evidence that Paul is instructing people to only speak in tongues at home and only in private - outside of tongues and interpretation.

I also don't see the Disciples embracing the terminology - "prayer language".

The instructions do give the idea that the person is speaking to God and not the church body, edifying themselves alone in a quiet and personal manner:

"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Corinthians 14:2

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church." I Corinthians 14:4

Again, nothing here indicates the person is not with the church body.

I also find that Paul is showing that the speakers involved in tongues and interpretation (I Cor. 14:28) were very well able to control themselves, indicating that they could or should be able to identify between edification of the church body and personal edification.

Anyone who has been around Pentecost, for any length of time, knows the difference as well.
Yes, they diffently were able to control themselves, as we should also.

Pressing On, No there is no terminology such as "prayer language." but putting the scriptures together we see that Paul is talking about prayer, as well as edifying the church.

"
Quote:
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God"
When you are speaking to God, you are praying. Then down a little farther,

Quote:
1 Cor14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue
.

If Paul 'spoke in tongues more than them all, yet didn't speak much in the churches, where did he speak in tongues?

I would say, in private, and it would be a prayer language.
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  #13  
Old 08-23-2013, 11:36 PM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by renee819 View Post
Yes, they diffently were able to control themselves, as we should also.

Pressing On, No there is no terminology such as "prayer language." but putting the scriptures together we see that Paul is talking about prayer, as well as edifying the church.
I would rather prefer to use "speaking in tongues" as the Disciples never used any other term.

Quote:
When you are speaking to God, you are praying. Then down a little farther,


If Paul 'spoke in tongues more than them all, yet didn't speak much in the churches, where did he speak in tongues?

I would say, in private, and it would be a prayer language.
I would have to consider Paul's whole counsel and instruction in I Cor 14.

In I Corinthians 14:5, Paul says, "I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied:"

Notice that in the Greek, "rather" is defined to mean, "more, in a greater degree".

Paul is saying, "I would that you spoke with tongues, but in a larger degree, that you would prophesy."

We, therefore, cannot come to the emphatic conclusion that speaking in tongues is nixed in a church body, other than tongues and interpretation. "More" or "in a greater degree" implies that you are or should be doing more than something else.

I Corinthians 14:19, "had rather" is defined differently. It means, "to will, wish" - "Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding,...",

In essence, Paul is saying, "I wish to speak with five words of my understanding."

Paul wouldn't give instructions that would contradict each other.

He ends the instruction with - 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. (40) Let all things be done decently and in order.

Earnestly desire to prophesy more, don't forbid anyone to speak in tongues. Let everything be done decently and in order.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:18 AM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

Originally Posted by renee819
Quote:
Yes, they diffently were able to control themselves, as we should also.

Pressing On, No there is no terminology such as "prayer language." but putting the scriptures together we see that Paul is talking about prayer, as well as edifying the church
.

Quote:
I would rather prefer to use "speaking in tongues" as the Disciples never used any other term.

I would have to consider Paul's whole counsel and instruction in I Cor 14.

In I Corinthians 14:5, Paul says, "I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied:"

Notice that in the Greek, "rather" is defined to mean, "more, in a greater degree".

Paul is saying, "I would that you spoke with tongues, but in a larger degree, that you would prophesy."

We, therefore, cannot come to the emphatic conclusion that speaking in tongues is nixed in a church body, other than tongues and interpretation. "More" or "in a greater degree" implies that you are or should be doing more than something else.

I Corinthians 14:19, "had rather" is defined differently. It means, "to will, wish" - "Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding,...",

In essence, Paul is saying, "I wish to speak with five words of my understanding."

Paul wouldn't give instructions that would contradict each other.

He ends the instruction with - 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. (40) Let all things be done decently and in order.

Earnestly desire to prophesy more, don't forbid anyone to speak in tongues. Let everything be done decently and in order
.
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Pressing On wrote
Quote:
Paul wouldn't give instructions that would contradict each other
.

Right! And I don't mean that he did.

The Gifts of the Spirit was a new surprise from God to the church. And it seems that many didn't know how to control or handle the gifts. Therefore Paul wrote 1 Cor. 12-13-14 as instructions on how they were to be in self control and yet desire and use the Gifts that God gave.

I believe that many were trying to speak in tongues all at the same time, as we see in many Charismatic churches and on TV. They were abusing the Gifts.

He wanted them to use them in the church, all of them, including speaking in tongues, because when it is interpreted, it is Prophecy and will edify the church.
But he wanted them to speak one at a time and to keep order in the church. The disorder that is reported in some churches, is not of God.

But when He told them that he spoke in tongues more than them all. If he did it in the churches, they would have known it, and he wouldn't have had to tell them.
Then he told them in the church he would rather speak five words of understanding than to speak in tongues. I believe he was also telling them, to pray in tongues at home.
Who doesn't need constantly to have their spirit edified?
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2013, 09:58 AM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by renee819 View Post
I believe he was also telling them, to pray in tongues at home.
I guess we will have to disagree on this.

Again, I Cor 14:5, says, "I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather/more; in a greater degree that ye prophesied:"

"More" or "in a greater degree" cannot mean nix it and only pray in tongues at home. Unless we are handing out duct tape at the door, I don't see how someone is going to stop a move of God during a service.
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:45 AM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

I pray many prayers in church that are not audibly discernible in public assembly. This may be with or without tongues. This should be included in this discussion of Paul's admonition of publicly speaking in tongues.
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2013, 11:06 AM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
I pray many prayers in church that are not audibly discernible in public assembly. This may be with or without tongues. This should be included in this discussion of Paul's admonition of publicly speaking in tongues.
I agree. My prayers are not always audibly discernible in the church and may be with or without tongues. When Paul speaks of edifying ourselves and speaking to ourselves and God, he is talking about the distinction of volume between personal edification and tongues and interpretation.

If we are instructed to speak in tongues in church only in the event of tongues and interpretation, than anyone initially receiving the Holy Ghost wouldn't be able to do that either.
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2013, 11:42 AM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
I agree. My prayers are not always audibly discernible in the church and may be with or without tongues. When Paul speaks of edifying ourselves and speaking to ourselves and God, he is talking about the distinction of volume between personal edification and tongues and interpretation.

If we are instructed to speak in tongues in church only in the event of tongues and interpretation, than anyone initially receiving the Holy Ghost wouldn't be able to do that either.
It's only problematic in your belief system that requires proof.
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  #19  
Old 08-24-2013, 02:33 PM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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It's only problematic in your belief system that requires proof.
If you attended a church, I would think you also had a belief system.
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2013, 02:52 PM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
If you attended a church, I would think you also had a belief system.
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