The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by houston

Relevance?

Totally relevant.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Totally relevant.

How?

[renee819]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I guess we will have to disagree on this.

Again, I Cor 14:5, says, "I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather/more; in a greater degree that ye prophesied:"

"More" or "in a greater degree" cannot mean nix it and only pray in tongues at home. Unless we are handing out duct tape at the door, I don't see how someone is going to stop a move of God during a service.

Pressing On, What are we disagreeing on?

I'm not advocating stopping people from speaking in unknown tongues at church. Or anything to stop the flow of the Spirit.

But I don't think that all should be speaking in tongues at the same time. We must take the Word for what it means, an not what is popular today.

1Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God

.

When I pray in church, as I said before, it is easier to pray in tongues than in my normal language, but I pray quietly to myself, because, Paul wrote,

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified

.

It is evident, is it not, that Paul didn't want them all speaking at the same time. Nor did he pray, in church, in tongues. Therefore you have to ask, where did he pray in tongues more than all of them?

And then we look at he scripture that you gave,

Again, I Cor 14:5, says, "I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather/more; in a greater degree that ye prophesied:"

Paul wishes that they all spoke in Unknown tongues. Why? Because it would edify their spiritual life. But rather that they prophesied. Why? Because whether it was the interpretation of tongues, or pure prophecy, it would benefit those that were listening. Edify the whole church.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by renee819

Pressing On, What are we disagreeing on?

I'm not advocating stopping people from speaking in unknown tongues at church. Or anything to stop the flow of the Spirit.

But I don't think that all should be speaking in tongues at the same time. We must take the Word for what it means, an not what is popular today.

.

When I pray in church, as I said before, it is easier to pray in tongues than in my normal language, but I pray quietly to myself, because, Paul wrote,

.

It is evident, is it not, that Paul didn't want them all speaking at the same time. Nor did he pray, in church, in tongues. Therefore you have to ask, where did he pray in tongues more than all of them?

And then we look at he scripture that you gave,


Paul wishes that they all spoke in Unknown tongues. Why? Because it would edify their spiritual life. But rather that they prophesied. Why? Because whether it was the interpretation of tongues, or pure prophecy, it would benefit those that were listening. Edify the whole church.

I think that what you are saying is confusing or I am misunderstanding you completely.

You appear to be saying:

1) I'm not advocating people stop speaking in unknown tongues in church.
2) When I pray in church, it is easier to pray in tongues than my normal language.
3) Paul never prayed in tongues in church.

I think you are using the English translation of "rather" as meaning "to prefer that to", but the Greek is using "more/in a greater degree". Whatever is being said, I want to know what the Greek is saying.

[renee819]

Pressing On wrote

I think that what you are saying is confusing or I am misunderstanding you completely.

You appear to be saying:

1) I'm not advocating people stop speaking in unknown tongues in church.
2) When I pray in church, it is easier to pray in tongues than my normal language.
3) Paul never prayed in tongues in church.

I think you are using the English translation of "rather" as meaning "to prefer that to", but the Greek is using "more/in a greater degree". Whatever is being said, I want to know what the Greek is saying

.


Pressing On wrote,

I think that what you are saying is confusing or I am misunderstanding you completely

.

I believe it is the latter---”or I am misunderstanding you completely. “ I really don't know how it is confusing.

Pressing On wrote

You appear to be saying:

1) I'm not advocating people stop speaking in unknown tongues in church.

And I never will. Paul didn't either, only that they behave decently and in order, in speaking one at a time. And waiting for the interpretation.
Pressing On, are you going to a Charismatic Church where all speak in tongues at the same time?

2) When I pray in church, it is easier to pray in tongues than my normal language.

But the rest of what I said, gives the sense to it.

Renee wrote
“but I pray quietly to myself, because, Paul wrote,”

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified

To paraphrase, Paul isn't saying that he prays in church, but when he prays n the spirit, he doesn't understand what he is saying, so he will pray with the understanding also. But if he prayed with the Spirit, (since he doesn't know what he is saying and those that hear him don't know either, then how could anyone bless that “seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? “

People were using tongues for Religious Pride, as I've seen many do today. “See, I'm holier than you, because I speak in tongues.” and especially on TV. I can't stand to watch any of those preachers.

3) Paul never prayed in tongues in church

.

If Paul prayed in tongues in the churches, he could not have written the 16th and 17th verse.

Maybe I shouldn't say, he never. Because he may have prayed as I do, quietly to myself. A person sitting next to me, wouldn't even know that I was praying in tongues.

Pressing On, what is confusing? Are you saying that all should be speaking in tongues at the same time?

[renee819]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I agree. My prayers are not always audibly discernible in the church and may be with or without tongues. When Paul speaks of edifying ourselves and speaking to ourselves and God, he is talking about the distinction of volume between personal edification and tongues and interpretation.

If we are instructed to speak in tongues in church only in the event of tongues and interpretation, than anyone initially receiving the Holy Ghost wouldn't be able to do that either.

I missed this one.

The difference is, These Christians in 1 Cor., had already received the Holy Ghost.
And now Paul is instructing them, on how to use the Gifts of the Spirit, that God divides between those that are already saved.

When people receive the Holy Ghost, whether 2 people or 120, they may all speak at the same time. Because the ONLY reason that they are speaking in Other Tongues---(NOT Unknown Tongues,) was to receive the Holy Ghost. And it does not need to be interpreted. It is the evidence.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by renee819

Maybe I shouldn't say, he never. Because he may have prayed as I do, quietly to myself. A person sitting next to me, wouldn't even know that I was praying in tongues.

Pressing On, what is confusing? Are you saying that all should be speaking in tongues at the same time?

The bold and underlined was the confusion.

If you say that Paul "may have" prayed quietly and that you shouldn't say, "never", you cannot also say that Paul only prayed in tongues at home. You cannot say that the chapter stresses that we can only speak in tongues at home. It's not possible that could happen in a spirit filled church.

I don't go to a Charismatic church. I do know that if I speak quietly to myself and to God, the person in front of me and beside me are, more than likely, going to hear some utterance. A whisper can still be heard to those close by. Unless, of course, I put my head in a paper sack. The person sitting behind me might hear me. Someone a few rows back probably wouldn't.

I do believe we should teach and encourage more to pray that they would be used in the gift of prophecy. From my experience, many don't feel special, worthy, anointed enough or solely inadequate. God can use anyone who is willing. But, also from experience, you can teach that until the cows come home and not get it through a person's head that God desires they would obtain that gift.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by renee819

I missed this one.

The difference is, These Christians in 1 Cor., had already received the Holy Ghost.
And now Paul is instructing them, on how to use the Gifts of the Spirit, that God divides between those that are already saved.

When people receive the Holy Ghost, whether 2 people or 120, they may all speak at the same time. Because the ONLY reason that they are speaking in Other Tongues---(NOT Unknown Tongues,) was to receive the Holy Ghost. And it does not need to be interpreted. It is the evidence.

Sure, but you have a church body with say, 120 Spirit filled people, and three receive the Holy Ghost. That means that they are speaking in tongues, more than likely, loudly. You may have 5 or 10 visitors who don't know what is going on. I've been in a service where that happened. The visitor questioned what the person was doing. So, how does that work with the admonition to only speak in tongues when an interpretation is given?

Forbid not to speak in tongues. Paul just wants order and he wants the gifts to be in evidence. He doesn't want everyone standing around - all the time - every service - edifying themselves and not ministering to the body. That is all he is saying, IMO.

[houston]

How about teaching people to pray in English???

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by houston

How about teaching people to pray in English???

No habla ingles!!!!!