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  #31  
Old 08-26-2013, 02:37 PM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Sure, but you have a church body with say, 120 Spirit filled people, and three receive the Holy Ghost. That means that they are speaking in tongues, more than likely, loudly. You may have 5 or 10 visitors who don't know what is going on. I've been in a service where that happened. The visitor questioned what the person was doing. So, how does that work with the admonition to only speak in tongues when an interpretation is given?
Paul also explains that tongues are a sign for unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 14:22) So, as you point out, there's certainly a place for unbelievers to hear someone speaking in tongues. (IMO, Acts 8 seems to be a prime example of unbelievers being awed by the demonstration of others receiving the Holy Ghost...likely, speaking in tongues. Even though Simon was a believer who was baptized, he was new to the faith and was fascinated by the power of God when he saw the Samaritans receive the Holy Ghost.)

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Forbid not to speak in tongues. Paul just wants order and he wants the gifts to be in evidence. He doesn't want everyone standing around - all the time - every service - edifying themselves and not ministering to the body. That is all he is saying, IMO.
This is my understanding of the passage, as well. Actually, kind of reminds me of those church services that people would brag about being in..."blow out" service where "the preacher didn't even get a chance to preach"...where all the congregation is just praising and praying in tongues the whole time. Seems to me that this isn't an experience to be coveted, but actually that Paul is saying that those types of services don't really edify the body and certainly don't edify unbelievers. Something to think about.

But bringing this topic back around to its origin...since your understanding of 1 Corinthians 14 seems to line up very closely with my own...how DO we explain Paul's passing comments that insinuate not every believer speaks in tongues?
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  #32  
Old 08-26-2013, 03:04 PM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by Real Realism View Post
Paul also explains that tongues are a sign for unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 14:22) So, as you point out, there's certainly a place for unbelievers to hear someone speaking in tongues. (IMO, Acts 8 seems to be a prime example of unbelievers being awed by the demonstration of others receiving the Holy Ghost...likely, speaking in tongues. Even though Simon was a believer who was baptized, he was new to the faith and was fascinated by the power of God when he saw the Samaritans receive the Holy Ghost.)
Awesome! I like how you explained this.


Quote:
This is my understanding of the passage, as well. Actually, kind of reminds me of those church services that people would brag about being in..."blow out" service where "the preacher didn't even get a chance to preach"...where all the congregation is just praising and praying in tongues the whole time. Seems to me that this isn't an experience to be coveted, but actually that Paul is saying that those types of services don't really edify the body and certainly don't edify unbelievers. Something to think about.
I've been in services like this and you can't stop it. It just hits and BAM! So, again, from our experiences, we know that doesn't happen ALL the time, and still supports Paul's teaching that he doesn't want us to stand around speaking in tongues without other gifts present and in operation every service. Consistently attending a particular location, it hasn't been my experience that the congregation only spoke in tongues without the other gifts in operation as well.

Quote:
But bringing this topic back around to its origin...since your understanding of 1 Corinthians 14 seems to line up very closely with my own...how DO we explain Paul's passing comments that insinuate not every believer speaks in tongues?
I Cor 14:26 is referring to the operation of gifts. Others may use I Cor 14:26 to claim proof of "no evidence" on receiving God's Spirit. The only problem, the view would contradict the passages in Acts, i.e. with Simon, etc. And I Cor 12:30 would contradict the view as well, clearly stating that not all will be used in the gifts.

It's apparent that you must have the Spirit to operate in the gifts. And it is apparent in Acts that the evidence was tongues. You can't read in Acts 10:45-46 with Peter and the others being "astonished" that the Holy Ghost was poured out on the Gentiles stating, "for they heard them speak with tongues." I mean, I could go to the bank with that one passage alone. I could win a court case with that passage.
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  #33  
Old 08-26-2013, 03:34 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by Real Realism View Post

But bringing this topic back around to its origin...since your understanding of 1 Corinthians 14 seems to line up very closely with my own...how DO we explain Paul's passing comments that insinuate not every believer speaks in tongues?
Paul is speaking about the gift of tongues not the initial evidence of tongues.
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  #34  
Old 08-26-2013, 03:47 PM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by houston View Post
How about teaching people to pray in English???
CDG, I am on a search for truth at the moment. I know you and I haven't been able to talk to you about it offline. I have a friend that I talk to about it though. I am searching for the relevance of tongues today. I have looked through scripture and have seen where God has used several warnings to a certain people prior to being wiped out, in the OT. In the NT it seems to be a similar action from God, but this is something I have talked about with my aforementioned friend. Anyway... what do you think CDG?
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  #35  
Old 08-26-2013, 04:16 PM
houston houston is offline
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

I apologize. I was addressing PO.
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  #36  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:12 PM
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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I apologize. I was addressing PO.
I know man. I was just using this forum to spill it. I am sorry. I could have just text ya.
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  #37  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:15 PM
houston houston is offline
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by Jack Shephard View Post
CDG, I am on a search for truth at the moment. I know you and I haven't been able to talk to you about it offline. I have a friend that I talk to about it though. I am searching for the relevance of tongues today. I have looked through scripture and have seen where God has used several warnings to a certain people prior to being wiped out, in the OT. In the NT it seems to be a similar action from God, but this is something I have talked about with my aforementioned friend. Anyway... what do you think CDG?
I'm not exactly sure that I understand the question. What does tongues have to do with wiping people out?
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  #38  
Old 08-26-2013, 09:26 PM
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renee819 renee819 is offline
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

Originally Posted by renee819
Quote:
I missed this one.

The difference is, These Christians in 1 Cor., had already received the Holy Ghost.
And now Paul is instructing them, on how to use the Gifts of the Spirit, that God divides between those that are already saved.

When people receive the Holy Ghost, whether 2 people or 120, they may all speak at the same time. Because the ONLY reason that they are speaking in Other Tongues---(NOT Unknown Tongues,) was to receive the Holy Ghost. And it does not need to be interpreted. It is the evidence
.
.

Pressing-on wrote,
Quote:
Sure, but you have a church body with say, 120 Spirit filled people, and three receive the Holy Ghost. That means that they are speaking in tongues, more than likely, loudly. You may have 5 or 10 visitors who don't know what is going on. I've been in a service where that happened. The visitor questioned what the person was doing. So, how does that work with the admonition to only speak in tongues when an interpretation is given?
Pressing-on, you still have the two mixed up. When a person is receiving the Holy Ghost, they are speaking in Other Tongues, not in Unknown tongues.

Other Tongues----evidence of the Holy Ghost---which is Foreign Languages. If there just happens to be someone there that understands the language, they can interpret. Which is usually praises to God. But no where in the Bible does it say that Other Tongues has to be interpreted.

Unknown Tongues---is a gift from God, after a person has received the Holy Ghost.
The language is UNKNOWN---- it takes another Gift, the gift of Interpretation for the message to be known.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries
.

“No man understandeth him'----it doesn't matter how many foreign languages, there are among the crowd, NO MAN can understand him.

There is one reason to speak in Other Tongues, and that is to receive the Holy Ghost. And should be simple and easy to explain, using Acts 2:4

I see 4 reasons to speak in Unknown Tongues, in 1 Cor. 14.

One----You are speaking mysteries. Meaning when you pray in tongues, you are praying the perfect prayer, because it is the Holy Ghost praying thru you.

Quote:
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God
.

Two ----When tongues are interpreted, it becomes Prophecy, and will edify the church.

Three---For the unbeliever, when it is interpreted, he sees the mighty power of God. As well the interpretation may even show the secrets of his heart and therefore cause him to repent.

Four----For individual edification. It strenghtens the spirit of the one speaking in Unknown Tongues.

Pressing-on wrote
Quote:
Forbid not to speak in tongues. Paul just wants order and he wants the gifts to be in evidence. He doesn't want everyone standing around - all the time - every service - edifying themselves and not ministering to the body. That is all he is saying, IMO.
.If you remember one of my Posts, I was encouraging the saints to use their gift of tongues more in prayer. And I would encourage all if they don't have the gift to pray that God would give it to them. Or show them what gifts they have been given. I believe that everyone that has received the Holy Ghost has also received one of the gifts of the Spirit. And should use it as God directs.

However, the way that a church service is set up, does not leave much room for the Gifts to operate.

I would NEVER—NEVER , discourage anyone from using their gifts or to forbid anyone from speaking in tongues, as God directs. However I would discourage a room full of people all speaking in tongues all at the same time. As Paul did also. Unless it was a room full of people all receiving the Holy Ghost. And this is not a contradiction, if you understand the difference.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
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  #39  
Old 08-26-2013, 10:57 PM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

well said my sister.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renee819 View Post
Originally Posted by renee819
.


Pressing-on wrote,


Pressing-on, you still have the two mixed up. When a person is receiving the Holy Ghost, they are speaking in Other Tongues, not in Unknown tongues.

Other Tongues----evidence of the Holy Ghost---which is Foreign Languages. If there just happens to be someone there that understands the language, they can interpret. Which is usually praises to God. But no where in the Bible does it say that Other Tongues has to be interpreted.

Unknown Tongues---is a gift from God, after a person has received the Holy Ghost.
The language is UNKNOWN---- it takes another Gift, the gift of Interpretation for the message to be known.

.

“No man understandeth him'----it doesn't matter how many foreign languages, there are among the crowd, NO MAN can understand him.

There is one reason to speak in Other Tongues, and that is to receive the Holy Ghost. And should be simple and easy to explain, using Acts 2:4

I see 4 reasons to speak in Unknown Tongues, in 1 Cor. 14.

One----You are speaking mysteries. Meaning when you pray in tongues, you are praying the perfect prayer, because it is the Holy Ghost praying thru you.

.

Two ----When tongues are interpreted, it becomes Prophecy, and will edify the church.

Three---For the unbeliever, when it is interpreted, he sees the mighty power of God. As well the interpretation may even show the secrets of his heart and therefore cause him to repent.

Four----For individual edification. It strenghtens the spirit of the one speaking in Unknown Tongues.

Pressing-on wrote


.If you remember one of my Posts, I was encouraging the saints to use their gift of tongues more in prayer. And I would encourage all if they don't have the gift to pray that God would give it to them. Or show them what gifts they have been given. I believe that everyone that has received the Holy Ghost has also received one of the gifts of the Spirit. And should use it as God directs.

However, the way that a church service is set up, does not leave much room for the Gifts to operate.

I would NEVER—NEVER , discourage anyone from using their gifts or to forbid anyone from speaking in tongues, as God directs. However I would discourage a room full of people all speaking in tongues all at the same time. As Paul did also. Unless it was a room full of people all receiving the Holy Ghost. And this is not a contradiction, if you understand the difference.
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  #40  
Old 08-27-2013, 12:07 AM
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Pressing-On Pressing-On is offline
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Re: The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

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Originally Posted by renee819 View Post
Pressing-on, you still have the two mixed up. When a person is receiving the Holy Ghost, they are speaking in Other Tongues, not in Unknown tongues.
I know you posted a lengthy post, which I appreciate, but let's start here as there is no point in going further if we can't clarify the point.

I don't believe I am getting them mixed up.

Acts 2:4 (other tongues) and I Cor 14:2;4;13;14;19 and 27 (unknown tongues) use the same Greek definition -

G1100
γλῶσσα
glōssa
gloce'-sah
Of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication a language (specifically one naturally unacquired): - tongue.

It would be the same interchangeability as using Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost - same difference.
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