Have you ever lost confidence in the saints?

[Truthseeker]

Confidence can be lost in anyone.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Did you know that he has a beach home in CA?

Now you know.

I want a beach house in Wyoming.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by diakonos

How specifically did you help him for 6 years?

Well C, He is on SSI so he asked me to help him with his finances. I did, for 5 years until he learned how to keep rudimentary balances. I taught him how to pay his rent, fix his credit, pay his utilities (Paid the differences when he didn't have the money to pay).

I drove him to walmart for 6 years for groceries because he did not have a vehicle. Took him to his appointments. Gave him jobs around the church for extra finances..

Want more?

The point here on this thread is that, like the other thread, sometimes bad things happen on both sides. We can't judge all the saints the same just like they shouldn't judge all pastors by the bad apples. This is all about learning to walk even when bad things happen.

Could you imagine a pastor getting discouraged and losing out with God over a disgruntled saint? Man, that would happen all the time. But, we learn to love those who want to be loved, lead those who want to be lead, work with those who want to work and just let God take care of everything.

One thing absolutely know is this. God always works it out, on both sides. God knows how to thump the head of a shepherd that is too hard and also how to break the leg of a saint that keeps wandering off. Our job is to do what God has called us to do. If it is in the ministry... then be the best we can, even through the disgruntled saints. If it is a saint, then be the best saint we can, even through the times when the ministry messes up. God has a way to keep HIS church intact.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Aren’t pastors saints too?

If they aren’t, well they should be.

And that, my AFF friend, is the exact problem.

Pastors aren't saints. Not in the way that you are thinking. They are undershepherds under the Great Shepherd.

The people that God puts in their flock still belong to God. But they are not saints. They are ministry. They are there to feed the flock, care for the flock, watch the flock, but they are not the flock. Sorry to burst your bubble but that is the truth.

If you could get a good understanding of the two then it would help your perspective of what is happening in your life.

God bless

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Well C, He is on SSI so he asked me to help him with his finances. I did, for 5 years until he learned how to keep rudimentary balances. I taught him how to pay his rent, fix his credit, pay his utilities (Paid the differences when he didn't have the money to pay).

I drove him to walmart for 6 years for groceries because he did not have a vehicle. Took him to his appointments. Gave him jobs around the church for extra finances..

Want more?

Yes...I want to go to your church.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yes...I want to go to your church.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

And that, my AFF friend, is the exact problem.

Pastors aren't saints. Not in the way that you are thinking. They are undershepherds under the Great Shepherd.

The people that God puts in their flock still belong to God. But they are not saints. They are ministry. They are there to feed the flock, care for the flock, watch the flock, but they are not the flock. Sorry to burst your bubble but that is the truth.

If you could get a good understanding of the two then it would help your perspective of what is happening in your life.

God bless

Actually, that is not correct. All God's people are the "saints":

Psalm 50:5 KJV
Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

Psalm 85:8 KJV
I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

Psalm 148:14 KJV
He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the Lord .

1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Ministry was included in the roll of the saints:

Psalm 106:16 KJV
They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the Lord .

Colossians 1:12 KJV
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

The 11 apostles were "sheep of theflock":

Matthew 26:31 KJV
Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

The disciples, including the apostles, were the flock:

Luke 12:32 KJV
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

All the people of God are collectively called His flock:

Zechariah 10:3 KJV
Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the Lord of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.

There are certainly different roles in the church of God, and there is certainly oversight. But to claim those who have the oversight are not saints, not sheep, not the flock, goes too far, and is the germ and seed of clericalism, and is something every overseer must guard against, as the apostles warned:

Acts 20:28-31 KJV
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. [30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. [31] Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

2 Peter 2:1-3 KJV
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [2] And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. [3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Well C, He is on SSI so he asked me to help him with his finances. I did, for 5 years until he learned how to keep rudimentary balances. I taught him how to pay his rent, fix his credit, pay his utilities (Paid the differences when he didn't have the money to pay).

I drove him to walmart for 6 years for groceries because he did not have a vehicle. Took him to his appointments. Gave him jobs around the church for extra finances..

Want more?

The point here on this thread is that, like the other thread, sometimes bad things happen on both sides. We can't judge all the saints the same just like they shouldn't judge all pastors by the bad apples. This is all about learning to walk even when bad things happen.

Could you imagine a pastor getting discouraged and losing out with God over a disgruntled saint? Man, that would happen all the time. But, we learn to love those who want to be loved, lead those who want to be lead, work with those who want to work and just let God take care of everything.

One thing absolutely know is this. God always works it out, on both sides. God knows how to thump the head of a shepherd that is too hard and also how to break the leg of a saint that keeps wandering off. Our job is to do what God has called us to do. If it is in the ministry... then be the best we can, even through the disgruntled saints. If it is a saint, then be the best saint we can, even through the times when the ministry messes up. God has a way to keep HIS church intact.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Well C, He is on SSI so he asked me to help him with his finances. I did, for 5 years until he learned how to keep rudimentary balances. I taught him how to pay his rent, fix his credit, pay his utilities (Paid the differences when he didn't have the money to pay).

I drove him to walmart for 6 years for groceries because he did not have a vehicle. Took him to his appointments. Gave him jobs around the church for extra finances..

Want more?

The point here on this thread is that, like the other thread, sometimes bad things happen on both sides. We can't judge all the saints the same just like they shouldn't judge all pastors by the bad apples. This is all about learning to walk even when bad things happen.

Could you imagine a pastor getting discouraged and losing out with God over a disgruntled saint? Man, that would happen all the time. But, we learn to love those who want to be loved, lead those who want to be lead, work with those who want to work and just let God take care of everything.

One thing absolutely know is this. God always works it out, on both sides. God knows how to thump the head of a shepherd that is too hard and also how to break the leg of a saint that keeps wandering off. Our job is to do what God has called us to do. If it is in the ministry... then be the best we can, even through the disgruntled saints. If it is a saint, then be the best saint we can, even through the times when the ministry messes up. God has a way to keep HIS church intact.

You sound like an amazing pastor. My only pushback is shepherds never intentionally broke the legs of their sheep....yall need to cut that example out of yalls repertoire.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Actually, that is not correct. All God's people are the "saints":

Psalm 50:5 KJV
Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

Psalm 85:8 KJV
I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

Psalm 148:14 KJV
He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the Lord .

1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Ministry was included in the roll of the saints:

Psalm 106:16 KJV
They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the Lord .

Colossians 1:12 KJV
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

The 11 apostles were "sheep of theflock":

Matthew 26:31 KJV
Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

The disciples, including the apostles, were the flock:

Luke 12:32 KJV
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

All the people of God are collectively called His flock:

Zechariah 10:3 KJV
Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the Lord of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.

There are certainly different roles in the church of God, and there is certainly oversight. But to claim those who have the oversight are not saints, not sheep, not the flock, goes too far, and is the germ and seed of clericalism, and is something every overseer must guard against, as the apostles warned:

Acts 20:28-31 KJV
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. [30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. [31] Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

2 Peter 2:1-3 KJV
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [2] And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. [3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Esaias, that was very well stated.