What Really makes a UC a "UC"?

[Praxeas]

While this may focus on one segment of Christian culture, I am hoping it won't become a free for all.

Often we associate UCs with doctrine of standards, but I feel many people that believe in standards are or can be conservative or moderate depending on how they treat the subject of standards and other doctrines and behaviors.

I will offer one that recently came to my attention. There is a church nearby where I have friends that go. Recently at a service the pastor announced they were going to stay there, locked in, until everyone prays through.

He announced the doors were shut/locked and the ushers were instructed not to let anyone leave.

That this pastor thought he had this sort of authority is what, in my mind, would make this church a UC. When I heard this I thought, "Wow, this man could be arrested for false imprisonment"..that his congregation members obliged and keep attending makes me think that this group is a cult. His members are told they are better off backsliding than to go to the UPC across town. Many people leave because they don't like the pastor but are so jaded by his teaching the refuse to find another church to attend.

That, to me, is what makes this church an Ultra Con. Other things like only wearing white dress shirts for men factor in too in a doctrinal sense. His disagreement with the UPC down the street is that UPC's pastor allows wedding bands. For that they have separated from that UPC for years and now have left the UPC altogether

Yet there are many UPCs that are pretty "stiff" on the whole standards issue that don't have that same sort of mentality towards other OP churches. I tend to view a UC as more of the attitude than the doctrine

What do you think?

[Praxeas]

Oh...I was in Visalia once for a Singles Camp with LS. After the "Let your hair down and release angels" session was over, I was milling around and this young lady tried to strike a conversation.

It went something like this

"Hi, where are you from?"

me "Oxnard"

"Oh, I think we had a rally there recently"

Me "A rally? What church do you attend?"

after she tells me I didn't recognize the church as being in our section so I said something to her

"Oh yeah, We belong to a group of churches that haven't compromised and we have fellowship meetings together".

This was back before most of those churches left the UPC. The tend to have been the same group that were the PSR crowd...

I would consider that "UC" more so than the UPC crowed they don't fellowship with

[aegsm76]

Interesting.
I always thought that in was the "outward stuff" that made a UC a UC.
I personally think the example given above was just some pastor going somewhat overboard.
It would be very hard for me not to march to the doors and see what the ushers would do...
But back on the UC topic, I would say that the below may detail it.
Long sleeves
Dresses below the knee
No rings
No makeup
No cut hair on women
Short hair on men
No earrings
No jewelry
No TV
No movies or no movies above PG
No shorts
Not attending any sporting events

That's all I can come up with for a serious list...

[RandyWayne]

Prax, this was a fairly recently revelation for me. I always associated a long rigid list of standards to UC's, and while that is usually true, the reality is a bit deeper. UC's first and foremost hold a strong near absolute belief in pastoral authority and use "obey them" as the last card to played in any questioning of spiritual doctrine. Second, but closely related to the first, is a heaven/hell view toward church attendance -namely the church you are a member of NOT the one across town or across the country. Virtually everything comes second to church attendance including friends, family, and spouses. Usually the 3rd would be a strong allegiance to tradition going allllllll the way back to the days of their granddaddies! Thus the recent comments about men ALWAYS wearing pants and women ALWAYS wearing dresses despite thousands and thousands of years stating otherwise. Try to say something and you will get an ear full of "the OLD Paths!".

I have heard multiple tales of very different churches and pastors which fit the above definition ranging from extreme charismatic to classic wacky cults.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Interesting.
I always thought that in was the "outward stuff" that made a UC a UC.
I personally think the example given above was just some pastor going somewhat overboard.
It would be very hard for me not to march to the doors and see what the ushers would do...
But back on the UC topic, I would say that the below may detail it.
Long sleeves
Dresses below the knee
No rings
No makeup
No cut hair on women
Short hair on men
No earrings
No jewelry
No TV
No movies or no movies above PG
No shorts
Not attending any sporting events

That's all I can come up with for a serious list...

So what would make a conservative or moderate?

[Adam]

No celebration of holidays
No Christmas trees
No non-religious music (including folk and country)
No "questionable" books (not just banned books)
No membership in any clubs (not just the Masons)
No "questionable" employment (e.g., hairdresser, bartender, etc)
No alcohol consumption (contrary to what Paul wrote)
No coin collections, stamp collections, etc. as these are idols and materialism

I could go on and on...

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Prax, this was a fairly recently revelation for me. I always associated a long rigid list of standards to UC's, and while that is usually true, the reality is a bit deeper. UC's first and foremost hold a strong near absolute belief in pastoral authority and use "obey them" as the last card to played in any questioning of spiritual doctrine. Second, but closely related to the first, is a heaven/hell view toward church attendance -namely the church you are a member of NOT the one across town or across the country. Virtually everything comes second to church attendance including friends, family, and spouses. Usually the 3rd would be a strong allegiance to tradition going allllllll the way back to the days of their granddaddies! Thus the recent comments about men ALWAYS wearing pants and women ALWAYS wearing dresses despite thousands and thousands of years stating otherwise.

I have heard multiple tales of very different churches and pastors which fit the above definition ranging from extreme charismatic to classic wacky cults.

that pretty much fits my view

[Praxeas]

So beside the extremes of doctrine a micro management of personal lives?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

While this may focus on one segment of Christian culture, I am hoping it won't become a free for all.

Often we associate UCs with doctrine of standards, but I feel many people that believe in standards are or can be conservative or moderate depending on how they treat the subject of standards and other doctrines and behaviors.

I will offer one that recently came to my attention. There is a church nearby where I have friends that go. Recently at a service the pastor announced they were going to stay there, locked in, until everyone prays through.

He announced the doors were shut/locked and the ushers were instructed not to let anyone leave.

That this pastor thought he had this sort of authority is what, in my mind, would make this church a UC. When I heard this I thought, "Wow, this man could be arrested for false imprisonment"..that his congregation members obliged and keep attending makes me think that this group is a cult. His members are told they are better off backsliding than to go to the UPC across town. Many people leave because they don't like the pastor but are so jaded by his teaching the refuse to find another church to attend.

That, to me, is what makes this church an Ultra Con. Other things like only wearing white dress shirts for men factor in too in a doctrinal sense. His disagreement with the UPC down the street is that UPC's pastor allows wedding bands. For that they have separated from that UPC for years and now have left the UPC altogether

Yet there are many UPCs that are pretty "stiff" on the whole standards issue that don't have that same sort of mentality towards other OP churches. I tend to view a UC as more of the attitude than the doctrine

What do you think?

This is very funny. Or sad. Not sure which.

[*AQuietPlace*]

For me, the definition of a conservative is their belief system. A long list of things that should be abstained from. I wouldn't use the word 'conservative' necessarily to describe a pastor who is controlling. I'd probably just use..... controlling. Dictator.

It does seem to follow that many controlling pastors also have a conservative belief system, but I know many conservative pastors who aren't controlling.

For me, controlling and conservative don't mean the same thing.