|
Tab Menu 1
Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun! |
|
|
04-26-2011, 02:35 PM
|
|
Go Dodgers!
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
|
|
What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
While this may focus on one segment of Christian culture, I am hoping it won't become a free for all.
Often we associate UCs with doctrine of standards, but I feel many people that believe in standards are or can be conservative or moderate depending on how they treat the subject of standards and other doctrines and behaviors.
I will offer one that recently came to my attention. There is a church nearby where I have friends that go. Recently at a service the pastor announced they were going to stay there, locked in, until everyone prays through.
He announced the doors were shut/locked and the ushers were instructed not to let anyone leave.
That this pastor thought he had this sort of authority is what, in my mind, would make this church a UC. When I heard this I thought, "Wow, this man could be arrested for false imprisonment"..that his congregation members obliged and keep attending makes me think that this group is a cult. His members are told they are better off backsliding than to go to the UPC across town. Many people leave because they don't like the pastor but are so jaded by his teaching the refuse to find another church to attend.
That, to me, is what makes this church an Ultra Con. Other things like only wearing white dress shirts for men factor in too in a doctrinal sense. His disagreement with the UPC down the street is that UPC's pastor allows wedding bands. For that they have separated from that UPC for years and now have left the UPC altogether
Yet there are many UPCs that are pretty "stiff" on the whole standards issue that don't have that same sort of mentality towards other OP churches. I tend to view a UC as more of the attitude than the doctrine
What do you think?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
|
04-26-2011, 02:40 PM
|
|
Go Dodgers!
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
|
|
Re: What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
Oh...I was in Visalia once for a Singles Camp with LS. After the "Let your hair down and release angels" session was over, I was milling around and this young lady tried to strike a conversation.
It went something like this
"Hi, where are you from?"
me "Oxnard"
"Oh, I think we had a rally there recently"
Me "A rally? What church do you attend?"
after she tells me I didn't recognize the church as being in our section so I said something to her
"Oh yeah, We belong to a group of churches that haven't compromised and we have fellowship meetings together".
This was back before most of those churches left the UPC. The tend to have been the same group that were the PSR crowd...
I would consider that "UC" more so than the UPC crowed they don't fellowship with
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
|
04-26-2011, 02:43 PM
|
Registered Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,121
|
|
Re: What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
Interesting.
I always thought that in was the "outward stuff" that made a UC a UC.
I personally think the example given above was just some pastor going somewhat overboard.
It would be very hard for me not to march to the doors and see what the ushers would do...
But back on the UC topic, I would say that the below may detail it.
Long sleeves
Dresses below the knee
No rings
No makeup
No cut hair on women
Short hair on men
No earrings
No jewelry
No TV
No movies or no movies above PG
No shorts
Not attending any sporting events
That's all I can come up with for a serious list...
|
04-26-2011, 02:58 PM
|
Registered Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
Posts: 16,746
|
|
Re: What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
Prax, this was a fairly recently revelation for me. I always associated a long rigid list of standards to UC's, and while that is usually true, the reality is a bit deeper. UC's first and foremost hold a strong near absolute belief in pastoral authority and use "obey them" as the last card to played in any questioning of spiritual doctrine. Second, but closely related to the first, is a heaven/hell view toward church attendance -namely the church you are a member of NOT the one across town or across the country. Virtually everything comes second to church attendance including friends, family, and spouses. Usually the 3rd would be a strong allegiance to tradition going allllllll the way back to the days of their granddaddies! Thus the recent comments about men ALWAYS wearing pants and women ALWAYS wearing dresses despite thousands and thousands of years stating otherwise. Try to say something and you will get an ear full of "the OLD Paths!".
I have heard multiple tales of very different churches and pastors which fit the above definition ranging from extreme charismatic to classic wacky cults.
Last edited by RandyWayne; 04-26-2011 at 03:02 PM.
|
04-26-2011, 03:01 PM
|
|
Go Dodgers!
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
|
|
Re: What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76
Interesting.
I always thought that in was the "outward stuff" that made a UC a UC.
I personally think the example given above was just some pastor going somewhat overboard.
It would be very hard for me not to march to the doors and see what the ushers would do...
But back on the UC topic, I would say that the below may detail it.
Long sleeves
Dresses below the knee
No rings
No makeup
No cut hair on women
Short hair on men
No earrings
No jewelry
No TV
No movies or no movies above PG
No shorts
Not attending any sporting events
That's all I can come up with for a serious list...
|
So what would make a conservative or moderate?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
|
04-26-2011, 03:01 PM
|
|
Registered Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 687
|
|
Re: What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
No celebration of holidays
No Christmas trees
No non-religious music (including folk and country)
No "questionable" books (not just banned books)
No membership in any clubs (not just the Masons)
No "questionable" employment (e.g., hairdresser, bartender, etc)
No alcohol consumption (contrary to what Paul wrote)
No coin collections, stamp collections, etc. as these are idols and materialism
I could go on and on...
|
04-26-2011, 03:02 PM
|
|
Go Dodgers!
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
|
|
Re: What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
Prax, this was a fairly recently revelation for me. I always associated a long rigid list of standards to UC's, and while that is usually true, the reality is a bit deeper. UC's first and foremost hold a strong near absolute belief in pastoral authority and use "obey them" as the last card to played in any questioning of spiritual doctrine. Second, but closely related to the first, is a heaven/hell view toward church attendance -namely the church you are a member of NOT the one across town or across the country. Virtually everything comes second to church attendance including friends, family, and spouses. Usually the 3rd would be a strong allegiance to tradition going allllllll the way back to the days of their granddaddies! Thus the recent comments about men ALWAYS wearing pants and women ALWAYS wearing dresses despite thousands and thousands of years stating otherwise.
I have heard multiple tales of very different churches and pastors which fit the above definition ranging from extreme charismatic to classic wacky cults.
|
that pretty much fits my view
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
|
04-26-2011, 03:03 PM
|
|
Go Dodgers!
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
|
|
Re: What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
So beside the extremes of doctrine a micro management of personal lives?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
|
04-26-2011, 04:49 PM
|
|
Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
|
|
Re: What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
While this may focus on one segment of Christian culture, I am hoping it won't become a free for all.
Often we associate UCs with doctrine of standards, but I feel many people that believe in standards are or can be conservative or moderate depending on how they treat the subject of standards and other doctrines and behaviors.
I will offer one that recently came to my attention. There is a church nearby where I have friends that go. Recently at a service the pastor announced they were going to stay there, locked in, until everyone prays through.
He announced the doors were shut/locked and the ushers were instructed not to let anyone leave.
That this pastor thought he had this sort of authority is what, in my mind, would make this church a UC. When I heard this I thought, "Wow, this man could be arrested for false imprisonment"..that his congregation members obliged and keep attending makes me think that this group is a cult. His members are told they are better off backsliding than to go to the UPC across town. Many people leave because they don't like the pastor but are so jaded by his teaching the refuse to find another church to attend.
That, to me, is what makes this church an Ultra Con. Other things like only wearing white dress shirts for men factor in too in a doctrinal sense. His disagreement with the UPC down the street is that UPC's pastor allows wedding bands. For that they have separated from that UPC for years and now have left the UPC altogether
Yet there are many UPCs that are pretty "stiff" on the whole standards issue that don't have that same sort of mentality towards other OP churches. I tend to view a UC as more of the attitude than the doctrine
What do you think?
|
This is very funny. Or sad. Not sure which.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
|
04-26-2011, 05:04 PM
|
|
Love God, Love Your Neighbor
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,363
|
|
Re: What Really makes a UC a "UC"?
For me, the definition of a conservative is their belief system. A long list of things that should be abstained from. I wouldn't use the word 'conservative' necessarily to describe a pastor who is controlling. I'd probably just use..... controlling. Dictator.
It does seem to follow that many controlling pastors also have a conservative belief system, but I know many conservative pastors who aren't controlling.
For me, controlling and conservative don't mean the same thing.
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:35 PM.
| |