I think what is being referred to is his 'tent vision' that never happened so in the minds of his followers they got every criptic statement he made and weaved this fanciful tale. Branham said "I will ride this trail again" I have no earthly idea what he was talking about but to them he is coming back, since NONE of his visions can fail then he has to resurrect to fulfil them. But he has to resurrect alot of folks he gave jobs to cause most of them are dead. Wacko yes. But I heard statement after statement made form the pulpit of the Tabernacle talking about his return.
There is a group of his followers in Tucson that teach his is coming back and it will be in Tucson that he shows himself.
At two seperate funerals in two different Branhamite churches they are talking so kindly of their dearly departed and they mention Jesus Christ maybe 7 or 8 times and then they talk about William Branham about 70 or 80 times. Now tell me who do they sound like to you that they are following? Jesus or Branham?
Personally mr vaughn I believe you have believed a lie. Now take that or leave it but that is my opinion. Accuse me of anything you want I don't care. Baptize in Jesus name all you want, speak in tongues all you want, repent all you want but as long as you follow this way of thinking and giving such high praise to a man that I don't even give to Paul, Peter, John, or any of the rest, then you are walking down a wrong road. I didn't know Branham, my father did though, he is gone now so I can not ask him anything to verify what he knew. I can tell you this, he warned very sternly that we should stay away from that crowd even back while Branham was still alive. My father left everything and walked away from his family but I know even in the end he still believed the true message of Jesus Christ and Christ crucified. He still warned against listening to those that teach falsehoods. I do not need my fathers warnings to stay away all I needed was reading some of the Branham believers writings on their web sites and church sites to know that I want nothing to do with all they have to say.
Branham was never the healer, Jesus was, Branham was never the one his followers should have looked to, Jesus was. When they stopped following Jesus and started following Branham they crossed a line. Branham may not have intended it but it seems from just reading what his followers say and what others I have spoken with say that he knew what was going on and he allowed it. That would make him a teacher with itching ears and that is something the Bible warns against.
These are my humble opinions, not meant to be mean, hurtful, or otherwise antagonistic.
Why is there a ? after Ph.D. this board seems to have a major problem with that... I've never seen anything like it
Sis. I didnt have to quote the entire verse.. because the rest of the verse supports MY VIEW.. there was a REASON GOD DID NOT HEAL LAZARUS.... its my same argument for those who were not healed in bro. branhams meetings.. it was not the WILL OR the TIMING of GOD.. so you see there was no need to post the rest of the verse.....
But I wanted to prove that Jesus could not heal his best freind... FOR A GREATER PURPOSE...... just because someone was not healed in a Branham meeting.. doe's not mean bro. Branham was a fake .......
Did you write a thesis expecting your professor to read only half of what you wrote? I don't have a problem with your degree. I have a degree myself.
I bolded part of your post above. If I took only that bolded part, it appears that you are claiming that Bro. Branham was a fake....yes....you said so in your own words! But is that really what you said in context? Context is a major part of any statement made.
Jesus didn't even attempt to heal Lazarus. He knew what was going to happen. This isn't even close to what Branham did, who did pray over people who weren't healed. Jesus NEVER did that. Anyone He prayed over, laid hands on, or even just spoke the words were healed. He never did that with Lazarus but allowed him to die for a reason.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
There is a group of his followers in Tucson that teach his is coming back and it will be in Tucson that he shows himself.
At two seperate funerals in two different Branhamite churches they are talking so kindly of their dearly departed and they mention Jesus Christ maybe 7 or 8 times and then they talk about William Branham about 70 or 80 times. Now tell me who do they sound like to you that they are following? Jesus or Branham?
Personally mr vaughn I believe you have believed a lie. Now take that or leave it but that is my opinion. Accuse me of anything you want I don't care. Baptize in Jesus name all you want, speak in tongues all you want, repent all you want but as long as you follow this way of thinking and giving such high praise to a man that I don't even give to Paul, Peter, John, or any of the rest, then you are walking down a wrong road. I didn't know Branham, my father did though, he is gone now so I can not ask him anything to verify what he knew. I can tell you this, he warned very sternly that we should stay away from that crowd even back while Branham was still alive. My father left everything and walked away from his family but I know even in the end he still believed the true message of Jesus Christ and Christ crucified. He still warned against listening to those that teach falsehoods. I do not need my fathers warnings to stay away all I needed was reading some of the Branham believers writings on their web sites and church sites to know that I want nothing to do with all they have to say.
Branham was never the healer, Jesus was, Branham was never the one his followers should have looked to, Jesus was. When they stopped following Jesus and started following Branham they crossed a line. Branham may not have intended it but it seems from just reading what his followers say and what others I have spoken with say that he knew what was going on and he allowed it. That would make him a teacher with itching ears and that is something the Bible warns against.
These are my humble opinions, not meant to be mean, hurtful, or otherwise antagonistic.
and your opinion is always appreciated and respected
His best friend Lazarus could not be healed by Jesus.. because it was not the will of God to heal him
This simplistic error fails on several points. Besides failing to recognize the difference between could not and would not and it also fails to recognize the fact that although Jesus did not rush to heal Lazarus from his sickness when called by the sisters, he certainly did do so in his own timing -- because only a fool would attempt to argue that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead WITHOUT HEALING HIS SICKNESS.
So the healing from the sickness took place a few days later than the sisters would have liked but simply because the timing didn't fit man's wisdom is a silly rationale for trying to suggest that Jesus "could not" heal Lazarus when Jesus undoubtedly gave him the ultimate 'complete recovery'.
Moreover in response to your foolish attempts to paint Jesus as mistaken or lying, I will simply quote Jesus:
Quote:
Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures
At one point you dare to ask, Does the scripture say it or not? but of course you have already made it clear that you feel that your words should substitute for the words of God's inspired writer. For what scripture ACTUALLY says is:
Quote:
This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
However you clearly prefer to take away the original words of scripture and add your's in their place for you consistently substitute your own reinterpretation in an effort to put your words in Jesus' mouth -- as if your words were just as good:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn
...in other words.. HE WILL NOT DIE
Your willingness to restate God's word in "other words" in an effort to pretend that the scripture means WHAT YOU SAY is your problem.
The fact is Jesus did NOT say what you falsely claim he said and therein lies root of your self-deception.
I point this out not for your benefit, for if pride will allow you to believe that your own "other words" are equal to those of God's inspired writer's, then one should have no expectation that you would suddenly decide to change your behavior. But rather I am posting this (and will do so without further explanation) to hopefully dissuade anyone who might be tempted to be deceived by your bait-and-switch attempt to paint Jesus (in post 6 especially) as either in error or a liar.
The fact is... at the moment they wanted Lazarus JESUS COULD NOT because the FATHER would not allow this healing.. it was BEFORE THE TIME.. it was not in the FATHERS WILL for LAZARUS to be healed and Jesus said -- I ONLY DO WHAT MY FATHER TELLS ME and I argue he couldnt have healed Lazarus if he wanted to....
the same applies to many who attend great healing meetings... if Gods will is for the sickness to remain it will REMAIN and CANNOT BE HEALED
The fact is... at the moment they wanted Lazarus JESUS COULD NOT because the FATHER would not allow this healing.. it was BEFORE THE TIME.. it was not in the FATHERS WILL for LAZARUS to be healed and Jesus said -- I ONLY DO WHAT MY FATHER TELLS ME and I argue he couldnt have healed Lazarus if he wanted to....
the same applies to many who attend great healing meetings... if Gods will is for the sickness to remain it will REMAIN and CANNOT BE HEALED
Now argue with clear and simple logic
WAIT WAIT IIIIIIIIIIII SEEEEEEEEEEEE IT
It is clear. I beeellllieeev NNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH NEVER
ha hah ha THOUGHT YOU HAD ONE DIDN'T YOU
KEEP FISHING V
EVEN THE WORST BAIT CAN CATCH THOSE OLE WORTHLESS ALLIGATOR GAR (WORTHLESS FISH FOUND IN LA -- FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW).
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If ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
Mone me, amabo te, si erro
No real problem exists over the use of "The Name" in everthing else done in the Church. Why then should there exist great controversy over the use of the "The Name of the Godhead" in water baptism?
Kevin J. Conner The Name of God p. 92
The fact is... at the moment they wanted Lazarus JESUS COULD NOT because the FATHER would not allow this healing.. it was BEFORE THE TIME.. it was not in the FATHERS WILL for LAZARUS to be healed and Jesus said -- I ONLY DO WHAT MY FATHER TELLS ME and I argue he couldnt have healed Lazarus if he wanted to....
the same applies to many who attend great healing meetings... if Gods will is for the sickness to remain it will REMAIN and CANNOT BE HEALED
Now argue with clear and simple logic
I don't agree with your overall premise in this thread this particular post is correct. If we see the kenosis as Jesus laying aside his divine prerogative and relying completely upon the Father for what he did. It also is obvious that Jesus did not heal everyone that needed healing. If one believes that Paul’s affliction was physical, sometimes the answer is "No".
I don't agree with your overall premise in this thread this particular post is correct. If we see the kenosis as Jesus laying aside his divine prerogative and relying completely upon the Father for what he did. It also is obvious that Jesus did not heal everyone that needed healing. If one believes that Paul’s affliction was physical, sometimes the answer is "No".
Baron,, this was my entire point.. presented my more concisely by you...
This entire debate began when I was responding to one poster who said if Branham had a true gift from God why was not everyone healed.....
in my effort to show that many times, healing is not available because the WILL OF GOD is not always known... and thus no meeting will ever produce 100% healings in a service...
Baron,, this was my entire point.. presented my more concisely by you...
This entire debate began when I was responding to one poster who said if Branham had a true gift from God why was not everyone healed.....
in my effort to show that many times, healing is not available because the WILL OF GOD is not always known... and thus no meeting will ever produce 100% healings in a service...
I think there have been several issues along the way but there is a difference in someone claiming that someone will be healed, and them not being healed and Jesus who spoke only what he heard from the Father healing only selected individuals. Everyone not being healed in a healing service (or whatever you want to call it) is certainly not proof that they are not annointed by God.
I have had both experiences with people who are used in the gifts. One time a well know evangelist in the UPCI prophesied over my wife that the doctor had told her she couldn't have kids but she would. He was wrong, no doctor had ever told her that. We also had an experience with a "charismatic" evangelist that quoted word for word the conversation my wife and I had had that morning, and helped give us the Lord's direction in a decision we were making. Sometimes men miss. Jesus didn't.
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