Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > The Newsroom > Political Talk
Facebook

Notices

Political Talk Political News


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 09-19-2018, 02:30 PM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,121
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I don't believe that Christianity is a mental illness either.

I will say that I've known quite a few mentally ill people drawn to religion in general. Every religion has it's conspiracy nuts, fanatics, and unbalanced people.
Most of the mentally ill fanatics that I know keep talking about how the government should have free healthcare for everyone...
__________________
If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under - Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-24-2018, 06:48 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76 View Post
Most of the mentally ill fanatics that I know keep talking about how the government should have free healthcare for everyone...
It isn't the mentally ill fanatics. Almost the entire free world wonders why America, the most wealthy and innovative nation on the planet, can't pull it off. And none of them want a system like ours. None of them.
Here is a very interesting article to read:
Conservative Think Tank: 10 Countries With Universal Health Care Have Freer Economies Than The U.S.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot.../#ccb1d42137e6
Universal healthcare can actually help an economy by removing employers from having to provide health insurance. Once this is done, it unshackles businesses to focus on one thing... business. And that means... profits. That's why so many companies are relocating... in nations with universal health insurance.

And the sad thing is, it's possible to do in several different ways. But we're not doing it. Having 50 million or more uninsured is perfectly moral and acceptable to the American conscience. We've seen an average of nearly 45,000 Americans die a year from treatable conditions because they couldn't afford the treatments or procedures. Those claiming bankruptcy over medical bills has climbed to 2 million a year, making medical bills the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the United States. Frankly, it's a travesty.

And if you're wondering about the growth or expansion of government, think of everything a universal health insurance system would replace:

Medicare as we know it.
Medicaid as we know it.
VA as we know it.
Various programs for women and minorities as we know it.
Various state programs that are geared towards providing coverage for the poor.

Universal healthcare would actually shrink the government. And, the budget for it would be such that we'd have to be far more responsible with our money. We couldn't just go around bombing countries and starting wars of choice. And the government would be far more focused on domestic health and wellness.

And, since Planned Parenthood depends on federal funding to stay in business, if we had a universal healthcare system, women wouldn't need to turn to Planned Parenthood for mammograms, prenatal, postnatal, gynecological, or any other women's healthcare need. We could cut funding to PP instantly. That would leave them struggling to pay the bills, this is why Planned Parenthood has always come out against Universal Healthcare.

We already pay enough in taxes that this is something we should already have. And the government isn't going to stop collecting our taxes. What we can do is push that the taxes we pay serve all Americans, and not just to subsidize the wealthy, banks, and corporations.

Last edited by Aquila; 09-24-2018 at 06:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-24-2018, 10:46 AM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,121
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

A - go read here

link
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot.../#2473d1d95502

and here
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertp.../#69d7bc212d81

and here
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2007/novemb...rsal_healt.php


And realize that there has NEVER been a government "social" program that has come in AT budget or UNDER budget.
Everyone has been over budget, sometimes 2 or 3 times over budget.
__________________
If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under - Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-25-2018, 07:14 AM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
J.esus i.s t.he o.ne God (463)


 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,806
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Universal healthcare would actually shrink the government.
I know you've drunk the liberal kool-aid, but surely even you have to see how ridiculous this claim is. There is not ONE SINGLE PROGRAM that the government has made which has shrunk the size of government. It does not and will not ever happen.

Government is a monster that only grows, and never shrinks unless forcibly cut back. It's like a weed in your garden that you can't get rid of. If you actually believe that government will shrink with yet another bureaucratic system in place, then you're even more deluded than I imagined.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Sometimes hidden dangers spring on us suddenly. Those are out of our control. But when one can see the danger, and then refuses to arrest , all in the name of "God is in control", they are forfeiting God given, preventive opportunities.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-25-2018, 07:17 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76 View Post
A - go read here

link
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot.../#2473d1d95502

and here
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertp.../#69d7bc212d81

and here
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2007/novemb...rsal_healt.php


And realize that there has NEVER been a government "social" program that has come in AT budget or UNDER budget.
Everyone has been over budget, sometimes 2 or 3 times over budget.
Oh, I forgot, the entire Western world is clamoring to have our "health-no-care" system. lol

Think of it this way... do you pay $400 a month for health insurance? Under single pay you will not be paying that premium. Your taxes will go up an extra $300 a month, equaling an extra $100 in pocket. Are you a family of four paying between $700 and $800 a month? Guess what, taxes go up an extra $300, leaving you with an extra $400 and $500 in pocket. That increases spending power, and yes, it will be spent in the local economy. So, the big bad scary tax is actually a net gain in the end.

As for the cost of the program, we're already paying for it, we're just not getting it. Americans pay as much, if not more, for their healthcare than citizens in other countries. However, 30 million Americans remain uninsured and go to the ER when sick or injured, with providers passing the loss down in higher costs that jack up premiums. The system we have now is an abysmal failure. As healthcare gets more expensive, more people will opt out if they can, meaning more people will go to the ER when they get sick or injured. They'll get billed and they will be paying on it slowly or not paying at all, driving up costs for the rest of us, and the cycle will continue until no one can pay for it.

Also, medical bills are the #1 reason for bankruptcy in the United States. Why should people lose everything if they or a loved one becomes seriously sick or injured? This is a tragedy that no one wants to address. Everyone pretends it doesn't happen. But it does, and it's happening more and more.

And if we want to drive the cost down even more, we can begin cutting corporate welfare, especially when a corporation is recording record profits.

Remember, all the programs of duplicity would be dissolved under a single payer system. Medicare as we know it, gone. Medicare as we know it, gone. The VA, gone. The dozens and dozens of state programs subsidized by the fed to provide healthcare to the poor and the children, gone. All the subsidized programs for women's health, like Planned Parenthood, gone. And all that funding would be routed to a single system.

And why should businesses be shouldered with the burden of paying for employee health insurance? Businesses would be free and unleashed to focus on doing what they do best, business. That means profits. And profits means... jobs.

With all the stupid stuff that the government subsidizes... healthcare is single most important issue just past national defense. Right now, we pay taxes and get next to nothing in return. It's time that our tax dollars be used to benefit the entirety of the American people, NOT just the select few.

The only other way to stabilize the system would be to repeal The Emergency Medical and Treatment Labor Act. But that means that hospital ERs would start turning away the uninsured, leaving them to wonder the streets sick and injured. Premiums would stabilize and the cost would eventually go down. However, most Americans couldn't stomach doing this. And so, healthcare has a mandate as though it is a social service... but it isn't funded like one. We need to fund it like a social service if the doors are going to be open to treat anyone who walks in.

Single payer isn't the only possibility. However, it is the single most comprehensive and perhaps the most realistic reform. Now, no system is without its problems or challenges. However, as it stands right now, it presents fewer challenges than our current system.

Last edited by Aquila; 09-25-2018 at 07:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-25-2018, 07:23 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
I know you've drunk the liberal kool-aid, but surely even you have to see how ridiculous this claim is. There is not ONE SINGLE PROGRAM that the government has made which has shrunk the size of government. It does not and will not ever happen.

Government is a monster that only grows, and never shrinks unless forcibly cut back. It's like a weed in your garden that you can't get rid of. If you actually believe that government will shrink with yet another bureaucratic system in place, then you're even more deluded than I imagined.
Tell me, why would we need the VA if we had a single payer system that covered all Americans, including vets? Why would we need Medicare plan A, B, C, D, etc., if all Americans were covered by a single payer system? Why would we need to subsidize neighborhood clinics in poor areas and non-profits like Planned Parenthood if everyone was covered by a single payer plan?

The bureaucracy and duplicity of the system would be significantly reduced.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:18 AM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,121
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

A - I am on your side, in part.
I am however very opposed to a single-payer government healthcare system.
We should do everything we can to encourage competition in the healthcare system.
Which I doubt will happen, because all of Congress has their hands out collecting money from the current system holders.
__________________
If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under - Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-25-2018, 09:01 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76 View Post
A - I am on your side, in part.
I am however very opposed to a single-payer government healthcare system.
We should do everything we can to encourage competition in the healthcare system.
Which I doubt will happen, because all of Congress has their hands out collecting money from the current system holders.
Single payer is only a subsidized insurance system. All providers remain private. It ensures that hospitals and doctors will actually get paid for their services, instead of having to pass the loss generated by the uninsured down to the consumer in higher healthcare costs, which means higher premiums.

It's essentially Medicare for All.

Gone will be HMOs, and all the red tape. It will actually generate more competition because it will create a wider base of consumers who can go to any doctor, specialist, hospital, or clinic they wish. This means doctors, specialists, hospitals, and clinics will begin competing to provide the best possible experience for those seeking care.

Look, if Planned Parenthood is against Single Payer, think of the implications. It will put Planned Parenthood out of business, and bring abortion under even more control. Under Single Payer, a prolife President could actually make a huge difference with the stroke of a pen, or delegate the management of abortion services to a Director, that he appoints. Standards and limitations can be in place wherein abortion is only provided in cases of rape, incest, or to preserve the life and/or health of the mother. Elective abortion would have to be provided by private sources and paid for out of pocket.

Last edited by Aquila; 09-25-2018 at 09:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-25-2018, 09:12 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

Planned Parenthood fears Single Payer because it would provide services universally that many women depend on Planned Parenthood to provide. And Planned Parenthood gets subsidies from the government to provide those services (which are claimed don't include abortion, but with a few accounting tricks, it does). Under a Single Payer system, funding Planned Parenthood would be absolutely unnecessary, and so most of their budget would be cut. They'd have to survive on private donations and contributions from supporters.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-25-2018, 10:34 AM
n david n david is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,803
Re: Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Sou

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Think of it this way... do you pay $400 a month for health insurance? Under single pay you will not be paying that premium. Your taxes will go up an extra $300 a month, equaling an extra $100 in pocket. Are you a family of four paying between $700 and $800 a month? Guess what, taxes go up an extra $300, leaving you with an extra $400 and $500 in pocket. That increases spending power, and yes, it will be spent in the local economy. So, the big bad scary tax is actually a net gain in the end.
Your math is fuzzy and completely wrong.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kasich Approves Medicaid!!!!! Dedicated Mind Political Talk 0 10-21-2013 07:57 PM
Jan Brewer pushes through Obama's Medicaid darrmad The Newsroom 1 06-17-2013 10:06 PM
Church Planting and Expansion Sam Fellowship Hall 21 01-17-2012 08:49 PM
Daily game Jun 11 : Hands of War 2 Expansion dailygame Daily Game 0 06-11-2011 03:24 AM
Expansion of the Universe Discussion clgustaveson Fellowship Hall 14 06-22-2008 07:28 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.