Differences of the two at the merger?

[crazyjoe]

I did not know until I read these threads that the PCI and the Apostolic Assemblies held different beliefs at, during and since the merger in 1945. Although many posts have referred to these differences I have not seen what the differences were. Could you please list the differences and which side held those beliefs, what churches did each side evolve from, names from each organization and what part of the country did they dominate?

I just need a little history lesson on the differences. Thanks.

[Timmy]

Oh, they're huge. I don't remember what they are, but they're huge.

[Art Brumley]

I too would like to know this information. As a matter of fact I was discussing this very information last Saturday with another poster.

[KWSS1976]

I don't know I got to an apostolic church but our sunday school materials are UPC out of hazelwood mo..so go figure

[pelathais]

To sum it up on what I think is the most important point...

The PCI view accepts all those who have sincerely turned to Jesus Christ in faith as being at least potentially a part of the Body of Christ. In other words, those millions of Christians that you meet every day just might be your brother and sister in Christ and should be treated accordingly.

The PAJC view is more exclusivistic and demands that the complete "3 step" process of repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and the infilling of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in other tongues, be completed.

The practical difference is that the PCI view does not purport to hold itself up as judge and arbiter over the salvation of mankind. Also, the "3 step" view has led to a number of errors. Here's just 3 of them:

1) The belief that an "Acts 2:38 church" has always existed throughout church history. Several fraudulant and even ridiculous books and "reports" have been published over the years. Many in the "3 step" camp seem to require this fantastic manipulation of the truth in order to line themselves up with their expectations on Matthew 16:18.

2) The belief that careful "obedience" to a script supercedes the work of Jesus Christ on the cross and the Holy Spirit in our hearts.

3) The belief that since we've got the baptismal formula correct, every other thought or whimsy is equally the "voice of God" and to be obeyed for fear of losing one's salvation.

[KWSS1976]

Pretty good way of viewing it Pel..

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

I don't know I got to an apostolic church but our sunday school materials are UPC out of hazelwood mo..so go figure

Most, or many, independent Apostolic churches came out of the UPCI. Most of them quit over holiness, not new birth doctrines. Thus they can use the SS material.

Most of the differences between the two organizations was in the way they viewed salvation, whether a person needed to just recieve the Spirit, whether or not baptism was essential, the need of tongues and so forth.

There are some good books out there on this subject by some of the origional men.

Just to think of a few:

Winds of God,
Both books on the Urshan brothers,
Coal miner preacher

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by pelathais

To sum it up on what I think is the most important point...

The PCI view accepts all those who have sincerely turned to Jesus Christ in faith as being at least potentially a part of the Body of Christ. In other words, those millions of Christians that you meet every day just might be your brother and sister in Christ and should be treated accordingly.

The PAJC view is more exclusivistic and demands that the complete "3 step" process of repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and the infilling of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in other tongues, be completed.

The practical difference is that the PCI view does not purport to hold itself up as judge and arbiter over the salvation of mankind. Also, the "3 step" view has led to a number of errors. Here's just 3 of them:

1) The belief that an "Acts 2:38 church" has always existed throughout church history. Several fraudulant and even ridiculous books and "reports" have been published over the years. Many in the "3 step" camp seem to require this fantastic manipulation of the truth in order to line themselves up with their expectations on Matthew 16:18.
2) The belief that careful "obedience" to a script supercedes the work of Jesus Christ on the cross and the Holy Spirit in our hearts.

3) The belief that since we've got the baptismal formula correct, every other thought or whimsy is equally the "voice of God" and to be obeyed for fear of losing one's salvation.

Just so I understand Pel,

Do you not believe that the church has existed throught the centuries?

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Most, or many, independent Apostolic churches came out of the UPCI. Most of them quit over holiness, not new birth doctrines. Thus they can use the SS material.

Most of the differences between the two organizations was in the way they viewed salvation, whether a person needed to just recieve the Spirit, whether or not baptism was essential, the need of tongues and so forth.

There are some good books out there on this subject by some of the origional men.

Just to think of a few:

Winds of God,
Both books on the Urshan brothers,
Coal miner preacher

We can't forget Thomas Fudge's book, "Christianity Without the Cross"! That book created an epiphany for me!

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

We can't forget Thomas Fudge's book, "Christianity Without the Cross"! That book created an epiphany for me!

Fudge did have some good data, I just disagree with the conclusion he came to.