The Persecution of Women in the Church

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

To cite a few wacky examples of crazies and try to broad brush an entire movement is ridiculous.

Agreed...wackiness is no respector of person that's for sure!!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Barb

Agreed...wackiness is no respector of person that's for sure!!

Every denomination and religious movement has their nutcases.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dora

Women who are cutting their hair and wearing make-up and wearing apparel pertaining to a man i.e. pantaloons, gauchos, split skirts, capris, bermuda shorts, etc., wearing jewelry are liberated,. No oppression there.

Men that approve of such or wear shorts or short sleeves or have beards or long hair etc etc...are liberals too. That does not mean the church is out to persecute women

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

If that's true, thats pretty sick.

Sure, it's nutty. But there are always the nuts among us.

I've heard the stories of saints who weren't supposed to be allowed to wear colored hose or certain kinds of lingerie, etc. but that is not the norm.

I don't believe for a minute that if you took a poll of women sitting in apostolic churches today that the majority would admit to feeling persecuted or disrespected because of the holiness standard in their church.

[Dora]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I get it...standards=persecution.

Gotcha.

I suspected that might be it.

Now, Coonie,

You know that was not my intent here. Simply pointing out how interesting it is to have a one woman "AMEN"-corner when that woman has chosen to longer adhere to the UPC standards.

If she doesn't feel personal conviction to adhere to those standards now, then what's the obvious conclusion? They were fine for a while but now she's chosen another path.

Nuttin' wrong with that.

[SDG]

A few wacky examples seem to be bunched up?:

There is the pastor that came to church w/ about a dozen safety pins ... then would watch for the ladies who knelt down and prayed to see if they had a split in their skirt .... my sister Darcie got one.

Or

The pastor who tells his women that they have the spirit of Jezebel if they have a skirt up to their knees.

Originally Posted by Felicity

Sure, it's nutty. But there are always the nuts among us.

I've heard the stories of saints who weren't supposed to be allowed to wear colored hose or certain kinds of lingerie, etc. but that is not the norm.

I don't believe for a minute that if you took a poll of women sitting in apostolic churches today that the majority would admit to feeling persecuted or disrespected because of the holiness standard in their church.

You are probably right, truth is that most oppression is never recognized and self-perceived. A women who is in an abusive relationship whether...emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, etc. is usually told this is either her fault, a blessing from God and an honor to Him. I'm not a psychologist, but I can tell you that living in abuse eventually leads to a pattern of gratitude towards the abuser if the abuser is meeting the needs of the abused and is consistently degraded to the point there is no self worth... clear classic signs of an abuser is taking advantage of that degraded mentality and after a while the abused will serve the abuser.
This is why it becomes so difficult to leave abusive relationships. The abused feels either hopeless, everybody is this way, or this is normal and I'll just make the best of this, until it eventually becomes a part of her/his DNA and then they actually will defend the abuser.

[Dora]

Oh! And just because it didn't happen to you personally, doesn't mean it hasn't happened at all or that it is a "rare" thing among ultraconservatives.

Your church must have been "liberal" like mine was (Life Tab - Houston, TX). I was always hearing how liberal our church was. HOGWASH!

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I don't believe for a minute that if you took a poll of women sitting in apostolic churches today that the majority would admit to feeling persecuted or disrespected because of the holiness standard in their church.

I don't think that was the intent of the original post. However, alleged "holiness standards" that aren't Scriptural or personal conviction are a heavy burden for many women to bear.

The ones that couldn't do it, aren't with us any longer. So hardly fair to point at those that remain as proof that the standards aren't in fact detrimental to some women.

I would point out, preemptively that the burden isn't the same for the pastor's wife as it is for the wife of someone not on church payroll. The peer pressure of working outside the home works in the opposite direction of a minister's wife.

Furthermore, if said standards are placed on women because of the fear that men lust uncontollably, then we are beginning to look at fear and oppression in the name of religion rather than freedom to move in Christ. The same kind of warped reasons are given for cloaking muslim women with or without their consent.

Originally Posted by Newman

I don't think that was the intent of the original post. However, alleged "holiness standards" that aren't Scriptural or personal conviction are a heavy burden for many women to bear.

The ones that couldn't do it, aren't with us any longer. So hardly fair to point at those that remain as proof that the standards aren't in fact detrimental to some women.

I would point out, preemptively that the burden isn't the same for the pastor's wife as it is for the wife of someone not on church payroll. The peer pressure of working outside the home works in the opposite direction of a minister's wife.

Furthermore, if said standards are placed on women because of the fear that men lust uncontollably, then we are beginning to look at fear and oppression in the name of religion rather than freedom to move in Christ. The same kind of warped reasons are given for cloaking muslim women with or without their consent.

Amen to that ! I will say this, at the Virginia Campmeeting this year a certain preacher said something to the woman they should be greatful that the men don't make their women wear what the moslems wear. That Islam is the fasting growing religion and the women should be greatful for their standards. Im only repeating what I heard from an individual that was there. Howbeit, if you hold a gun to a womans head, I guess she'll wear anything.