Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > The Library
Facebook

Notices

The Library The Library for posting Articles and recommended reading.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 07-09-2013, 06:02 PM
Rudy Rudy is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,778
Re: List of grace giving churches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
No Apostolic church would commit financial suicide in order to support a strange new doctrine.

The tithe was established from before the law, during the law and even after the law.
"strange new doctrine"

LIST OF TITHING OPPONENTS IN HISTORY




Clement of Rome 100
Didache 100 (also see my site and book)
Justin Martyr 165
Tertullian 230
Origen 255
Cyprian 258 (my site)
Waldenses 1150+-
Thomas Aquinas 1275
John Wycliff 1384
John Huss 1415
German Peasants 1520
Anabaptists 1525
Erasmus 1536
Otto Brumfels 1534
Martin Luther 1546
Philip Melanchthon 1560
Separatists Amsterdam 1603
John Smythe 1609 Baptist
John Robinson 1610
English Parliament 1650+-
Puritans & Plgrims Mass 1650+-
John Cotton 1652 Puritan
Roger Williams 1636 Baptist
Little Parliament 1653
Oliver Cromwell 1658
John Milton 1658 Puritan
Particular Baptists 1660
John Owen 1680 Baptist
Francis Turretin 1687
John Bunyan 1688 Baptist
Quakers 1768
John Gill 1771 Baptist
John Wesley 1791 (my site)
BAPTISTS IN AMERICA 1800s
Adam Clarke 1832 Baptist
Charles Buck 1833
J C Philpot 1835 Baptist
Charles H Spurgeon 1832 Baptist
Parsons Cooke 1850
Samuel Harris 1850
Edward A Lawrence 1850
John Peter Lange 1876
Henry William Clark 1891 Engllish
S H Kellogg 1891
G Campbell Morgan 1898 Congregational
Albert Vail 1913 Baptist
Frank Fox 1913
David MaConaughy 11918 Episcopal
William Pettingill 1932
John Harvey Grime 1934 Baptist
John T Mueller 1934 Lutheran
H E Dana 1937 Bapt Historian (my site)
R C H LENSKI 1946 Lutheran
Lewis Sperry Chafer 1948 DTS Foundeer
W E Vine 1949
James F Rand 1953
Francis Pieper 1953 Lutheran
Ray Stedman 1951
L L McR 1955 Catholic
Paul Leonard Stagg 1958 Baptist
Hiley H Ward 1958 Baptist
Roy T Cowles 1958
Elizabeth P Tilton 1958
R C Rein 1958 Lutheran
Robert A Baker 1959 Bapt Historian
Wick Bromall 1960
John Byron Evans 1960
Norman Tenpas 1967
James Edward Anderson 1967
Alfred Martin 1968
CHARLES C RYRIE 1969 DTS
Jerry Horner 1972 S Baptist
Pieter Verhoef 1974
Dennis Wretlind 1975
Jack J Peterson 1978 Pres
Donald Kraybill 1978
Jon Zens 1979 Baptist
Richard Cunningham 1979 S Bapt
Gary Frieson 1980
JOHN MACARTHUR 1982-2000
Paul Fink 1982
George Monroe Castillo 1982
Tony Badillo 1984
James M Boice 1986
Michael E Oliver 1986 Rest
W Clyde Tilley 1987
Scott Collier 1987
Ronald M Campbell 1987
R E O White 1988
William McDonald 1989
Charles Swindoll 1990 Dallas Seminary
Rhodes Thompson 1990
J VERNON MCGEE 1999
Jerome Smith 1992
CRAIG BLOMBERG 1993 Denver Seminary
J Duncan M Derrett 1993
Walter Kaiser Jr 1994 Gordon-Cromwell
Moises Silva 1994
Benny D Prince 1995
Brian K Morley 1996
Linda L Belleville 1996
Ron Rhodes 1997
Ernest L Martin 1997
Michael Webb 1998
R Johnston 1999
Mark Snoeberger 2000 Baptist
Stuart Murray 2000 Eng
George W Greene 2000
Old Line Primitive Baptists 2000
Jaime Cardinal Sin 2000 Cath Archbishop
RUSSELL EARL KELLY 2001 Baptist
Jonathan Kitchcart 2001
Frank Viola 2002
George Barna 2002
Michael Morrison 2002
Elliott Miller 2003
Matthew Narramore 2004
David Alan Black 2004 Baptist SEBTS (my site)
Andreas Kostenberger 2007 Baptist SEBTS (my site)
Danny Akin 2007 Baptist SEBTS (my site)
Mark Driscoll 2008
Roman Catholic Church
Jehovah’s Witnesses
New Worldwide Church of God
__________________


http://www.paganchristianity.org


Go here on tithing----->

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

If it is God's will for your illness then why are you seeking medical attention to get rid of it?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:12 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,149
Re: List of grace giving churches.

Yeah...but those folks aren't Apostolic so they don't have the revelation! When you come to the revelation of Christ and the Oneness, the tithing revelation is automatic within you. LOL.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-10-2013, 07:58 AM
Digging4Truth's Avatar
Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
Still Figuring It Out.


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
Re: List of grace giving churches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
No Apostolic church would commit financial suicide in order to support a strange new doctrine.

The tithe was established from before the law, during the law and even after the law.
First... the tithe wasn't "established" before the law. One time in Abrahams life he gave a tenth of the spoils of war to a King. (which was an established custom of those days) That isn't establishing a tithe. An established tithe would be that it was an established concept that people gave a tenth to the Levites or some facsimile thereof.

To state that one man gave a tenth, not of his income or his flock, but of the spoils of war one time to one king isn't an established concept. It is an example of something that happened in history.

Secondly... It isn't committing financial suicide. It is trusting God. If one has a true understanding of what is being said in Malachi 3 we would see that God was telling the priests... who were keeping all of the tithe for themselves... that if they would trust God and go back to the 10% they were supposed to be keeping then they would have more than they could handle. It would seem that going from 100% to 10% would be financial suicide but God said... do it my way and see what happens. I'll bless you more than you can handle.

This is what preachers tell people all the time. You think you can't afford to tithe? You can't afford NOT to tithe... try God and see if He doesn't pour out on you a blessing you cannot contain.

But... then... when the tables are turned and someone says... trust the Lord... now all of a sudden it's financial suicide.

On the issue of what was really being said in Malachi 3 here is a post of mine from another thread.

Quote:
In Numbers 18 the instructions were that 10% of the tithe was to be kept for the Levites (Which would include all of those who worked in the temple... porters, musicians etc). Then another 10% was to be given to the priest. They were to take only 10% for each group but they were allowed to take the best of it.

The rest fed the elderly, the poor, the widows, the orphans, strangers etc.

Also the priest was never to handle the tithe outside the 10% that was given to him by God's word. The Levites who were not priests handled the division of the tithe to the priests, themselves and the people and what was not in the 20% given to the priests & Levites was kept in the store house.

Now... with that in mind remember what Nehemiah found when he came to Jerusalem? (Also remember that Nehemiah and Malachi were contemporaries)

* He found an Ammonite living in the storehouse rather than the tithe being stored there.
* He found the priests handling the tithe rather than the Levites.
* He found the priests were keeping ALL the tithe and weren't even giving the Levites their part and had the Levites working... even on the sabbath.
* He found that the poor, elderly, widows etc were not being fed with the tithe.

Now... take in consideration that Malachi starts off his book by stating this in 1:1... The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

He was saying... this message is to Israel.

Now note this... In 2:1 he states And now, O ye priests, this commandment [is] for you.

And he never denotes a change of audience even through the third chapter.

Malachi was talking about what Nehemiah had found in the temple.

In Malachi 3 he was saying...

Mal 3:8 KJV - Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. (WHO robbed God? Who is Malachi talking to? The Priests!!!) But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. (They were stealing the tithes & offerings by not having them handled according to Gods law)
Mal 3:9 KJV - Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation. (The priests have not only robbed God but they have robbed the entire nation because the tithe was to the Levites first... then the priests... then the entire nation)
Mal 3:10 KJV - Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, (Kick out that Ammonite who is forbidden to even be in the congregation much less live in the storehouse. And... did the people EVER take their tithes to the storehouse? No... they brought it to the Levites. This isn't to the people. This is to the priests who were mishandling the tithe when they shouldn't have been handling it at all) that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].


So God is saying... handle the tithe the way I said to handle it. You might think you'll be broke if you do that because you're taking it all right now but try my word... take care of my people... give the control back to the Levites... give the Levites there portion... feed the people. Do all this so there will, once again, be meat in my house and you'll find out that your blessings will be more than you can handle.

Like the preachers say... you just have to understand Gods math.

But these scriptures are twisted 180 degrees from the actual message.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:11 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
Saved by Grace


 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
Re: List of grace giving churches.

Fellowship Bible Church
Decatur, TX
Fellowshipbiblentx.org

Beliefs on website.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards

"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill

Last edited by Jason B; 07-10-2013 at 12:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:16 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
Saved by Grace


 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
Re: List of grace giving churches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hometown guy View Post
I guess my church is a FREEWILL GIVING church because its not forced. In fact we preach FREEWILL is what God has gave us. Now if they want to go heaven God demands tithing.....
I haven't been stirred up on this subject for quite some time, but it is statements contrary to the gospel, like this, that really bother me. Have ye not read, we are not redeemed by corruptible things like silver and gold, but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ? When you sing "what can wash away my sins? Do you add 'and paying tithes' to the blood of Jesus? To say that god demands tithing to go to heaven isn't only ignorant, it is heresy, and an insult to the grace of God and the blood of Christ.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards

"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:36 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
Saved by Grace


 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
Re: List of grace giving churches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
You still on your crusade against tithing?
Not very successful, I can see from the list of churches you give.
Perhaps belivers in freewill giving should make a new version of the New Testament, and take out the references to christian tithing.....oh wait, there are none.

Now, wasn't there a fellow who went through the trouble of publishing a whole new version of the Bible, The Holy Apostolic New Testament, just to erase the text of Matthew 28:19? Now who did that, FlaminZword?

So you tell me who has a problem with scripture?!
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards

"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:39 PM
navygoat1998's Avatar
navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
Repent and believe the Gospel!


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,089
Re: List of grace giving churches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Badejo View Post
Perhaps belivers in freewill giving should make a new version of the New Testament, and take out the references to christian tithing.....oh wait, there are none.

Now, wasn't there a fellow who went through the trouble of publishing a whole new version of the Bible, The Holy Apostolic New Testament, just to erase the text of Matthew 28:19? Now who did that, FlaminZword?

So you tell me who has a problem with scripture?!
Jason as always good to see you
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)

Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-10-2013, 01:56 PM
Timmy's Avatar
Timmy Timmy is offline
Don't ask.


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 24,212
Re: List of grace giving churches.

__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:09 PM
MarcBee MarcBee is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 801
Re: List of grace giving churches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
__________________
_______________________________________

Deeply JN Apostolic: 1978-1999.
Happily agnostic/atheist 2011 to present.

Good news! The gospel boils down to, "Love me
or I will destroy you." --A god.

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-10-2013, 07:38 PM
Rudy Rudy is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,778
Re: List of grace giving churches.

To all that may read this who have been called to labor in the gospel. We have discussed the tithing issue for many years. IMO it is time to organize, sacrifice, and plant churches who want and will carry the banner of truth. Where truth is at the front of all that we say and do.

Forced tithing of money has taken the place of our Lord's suffering and sacrifice. It is now required for membership to the Body of Christ. We have been told it could effect your health, marriage, your children's well being and just plain bad things can happen to you if you don't.

One Org requires a signed statement that you will teach and practice tithing money, this I was told by a minister.

It seems the time has come to plant churches who will not teach this heresy. Whether it be home churches or the building approach. Not everyone is suited for home assembly or the building approach. One may have to move to different locales in order to live and worship in freedom. Through out history there were exodus's to flee tyranny, yes tyranny. Threatening eternity in hell if you don't line up is terror as well.

I know there are more than enough who are willing to sacrifice for this cause of truth.

Look at our ancestors--> 2nd Cor. 4
9 For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are distinguished, but we are dishonored! 11 To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless. 12 And we labor, working with our own hands. Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure; 13 being defamed, we entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now. Paul’s Paternal Care

14 I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. 15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you, imitate me.

2Cor. 11
Suffering for Christ

22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?


Are we willing to start moving in church planting? Sacrifice and suffering? Can we endure and imitate Paul.


Let's do it!!
__________________


http://www.paganchristianity.org


Go here on tithing----->

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

If it is God's will for your illness then why are you seeking medical attention to get rid of it?

Last edited by Rudy; 07-10-2013 at 07:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Saved by GRACE ... but -Qualifying Grace (SAL) DAII The D.A.'s Office 14 08-04-2010 02:10 PM
Amazing Grace's Cranky List AmazingGrace Fellowship Hall 24 01-10-2008 12:49 PM
The Joy of Giving Rico Deep Waters 24 09-02-2007 02:39 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.