Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Jesus didn't say he was dead from the perspective of earth. He said "That the dead are raised" is proven from the divine statement "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." Those guys were dead. Yet God is their God. This, according to Jesus, proves.... what? A conscious intermediate state? That there are no actually dead people? That God doesn't recognise the dead as in fact dead? He is confused?
No, it proves THE RESURRECTION. "That THE DEAD ARE RAISED".
By the way, He used present tense in referring to resurrection, yet nobody had been resurrected yet. This should explain why He used present tense in "for all live unto Him"....
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Matthew 22:28-32.. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. ..(29).. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. ..(30).. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. ..(31).. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, ..(32).. I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
He spoke of Abraham as being alive while everyone knew Abraham was dead for centuries at that time. There is only one way in which he can be both dead and alive at the same time, and Jesus spoke as if that was the case. That way is what Paul referred to in
2 Cor 5.
When you refer to
2 Cor 5:6, 8, you speak as though the information in those verses was not factual. But it is. Being present with the Lord or being absent from the Lord were states of being that were spoken in contrast of being present with the body or absent from the body. Since Paul was writing factually, to be present with the body means the SOUL is with those in the earth, and the person is considered alive. But being present with the Lord means that the soul is with Christ and we consider the person dead. The location of the soul determines the state of life or death. The perspective all focuses on the state of the body, the only thing that dies. This is the reason that resurrection is of the body, not soul or spirit. It's the reason that
1 Cor 15 asks with WHAT BODY do they come. And, just by saying with what body do they come, we get the implication that the PERSON is distinct from the body, and that the resurrection is solely of the body, because the person is known to have a certain body now, whereas the question asks what DIFFERENT body will the person has when they resurrect? And we find that the body changes, but the soul does not! So, it is speaking from perspectives in the relation that's between the soul and body, knowing the body stays here on earth.
This shows us, by surveying all the scriptures that are related, that there is a consideration of the location of the soul as it relates to the body in order to speak about such things. And I claim that the words of Jesus and Paul are complementary, and not that Paul spoke a wishful thought of a mythical separation of soul and body.
For this reason, we read in
Revelation 20 that John saw the SOULS of them that were beheaded, not the bodies. These are people who have died and gone on. And it shows the membership of the body of Christ since the atonement to be comprised of people in heaven and earth at the same time, with some of those in heaven, who never lived under the new covenant in earth, comprised of old covenant saints whose obedience to the old covenant's foreshadows of Christ's atonement actually made atonement for them when he entered Heaven, and not before. That is why he saw them sit on thrones, for they became seated with Christ when Christ made atonement for them, according to
Eph 2:5, just as we are seated with Him spiritually while on this earth.
Jesus did not speak in the present tense about the resurrection with the intention that you claim. He confirmed said there is a single moment called resurrection. after the people spoke as though it were by using the same phrase IN THE RESURRECTION. About that moment, He was asked WHO SHALL BE the husband of the wife in the example. This puts the resurrection at a future time. Jesus responded with the same sense. IN THE RESURRECTION. He also spoke of the resurrection that had not yet occurred and said that when it occurs the state he described is the way it would be. The simplest read of this passage, without creating hoops between the words, is to see how Abraham is alive if God is presently called the God of the living.
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