Financial declaration?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Just in case you are serious with this question . . .

Romans 5
[15] But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[16] And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Suppose you are a sinner and you have been witnessed to about the free gift of salvation that Jesus purchased on your behalf with His very life blood. You are intrigued by this story of Someone paying the price for your sins. Someone who loved you and didn’t know you. Someone who acted in complete absence of any ulterior motive but entirely on your behalf to pay a debt that you could not possibly pay.

You want to know more. You are drawn to this good news but of course you are a bit dubious. Could it really be that Someone could do this for you for free? There’s no such thing as a free lunch, right? You read the passages like Romans 5 and others that say it really is a free gift. Your friend invites you to church and you hear a sermon preached. Your very heart and soul confirms that this really is the real thing. You are under conviction for the sinful life you have lead and want absolutely nothing more to do with it. You are advised to be baptized for the remission of your sins, where the blood of Jesus is applied and your sins are paid for. You receive the marvelous gift. That free gift. The one you could never hope to attain on your own behalf. Things are wonderful. There is hope.

Two weeks go by. The pastor wants to counsel you. He breaks the news to you. There is a small fee. The gift is in danger of being repossessed. The cost to keep it is ten percent of your gross or net income for the rest of your life.

Hmmm . . .

Thats interesting that you write that encouraging scenario, and then end it with the Pastor that wants money. You have definitely made the case that so many have accused church’s of,
1- There full of Hypocrites
2- They want your Money

I asked about the Pastor being a blessing to 1God for a reason. And he eventually gave the answer I was looking for. Is the gospel for sale, you tell me, because this will cost you, there is a price you will pay. It’s a free gift to receive, yet it costed the blood in order to make any of this possible.

Anyways, 1God said this,
It depends on what he preaches. Sometimes we get an earful. Definitely not worth a lifetime tithe. Sometimes I cannot give if there is a giving lecture etc.. You know what I mean.

By what he wrote, and I was his Pastor I would give his money back, and tell him to find a another church. He gives based on what he feels, thats sad.

D.C. Moody once said, if you cant trust me with your tithe, then you cannot trust me with your soul. Agree or not, the principal is true, if you’re at an assembly that you cannot support weather in time, talent, or treasure then you need to find another one.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Thats interesting that you write that encouraging scenario, and then end it with the Pastor that wants money. You have definitely made the case that so many have accused church’s of,
1- There full of Hypocrites
2- They want your Money

I asked about the Pastor being a blessing to 1God for a reason. And he eventually gave the answer I was looking for. Is the gospel for sale, you tell me, because this will cost you, there is a price you will pay. It’s a free gift to receive, yet it costed the blood in order to make any of this possible.

Anyways, 1God said this,
It depends on what he preaches. Sometimes we get an earful. Definitely not worth a lifetime tithe. Sometimes I cannot give if there is a giving lecture etc.. You know what I mean.

By what he wrote, and I was his Pastor I would give his money back, and tell him to find a another church. He gives based on what he feels, thats sad.

D.C. Moody once said, if you cant trust me with your tithe, then you cannot trust me with your soul. Agree or not, the principal is true, if you’re at an assembly that you cannot support weather in time, talent, or treasure then you need to find another one.

You just described "pay to play" or "rent a shepherd" etc. Also, you just described a hireling.

[1 God]

Here's the simple truth. Preach the gospel without unscriptural "attachments", then the free will giving we be given, unbegrudgingly. All needs will be met and the sinner will accept the gospel as legitimate.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Thats interesting that you write that encouraging scenario, and then end it with the Pastor that wants money. You have definitely made the case that so many have accused church’s of,
1- There full of Hypocrites
2- They want your Money

I asked about the Pastor being a blessing to 1God for a reason. And he eventually gave the answer I was looking for. Is the gospel for sale, you tell me, because this will cost you, there is a price you will pay. It’s a free gift to receive, yet it costed the blood in order to make any of this possible.

Anyways, 1God said this,
It depends on what he preaches. Sometimes we get an earful. Definitely not worth a lifetime tithe. Sometimes I cannot give if there is a giving lecture etc.. You know what I mean.

By what he wrote, and I was his Pastor I would give his money back, and tell him to find a another church. He gives based on what he feels, thats sad.

D.C. Moody once said, if you cant trust me with your tithe, then you cannot trust me with your soul. Agree or not, the principal is true, if you’re at an assembly that you cannot support weather in time, talent, or treasure then you need to find another one.

Principle? If you wanna teach the Old Testmanent principle of giving you're limiting yourself. Let go of the reins of the saints and let God lead them in giving without your hand pressing down the scales and you'll find that Spirit filled saints giving out of love and not threat will give more to the work...that principle is from the New Testament but then that'd require folks to operate in some faith...

[1 God]

Problem is this. The saints are told to "live by faith" and the ministry wants a guaranteed income. They need to practice what they preach too.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Principle? If you wanna teach the Old Testmanent principle of giving you're limiting yourself. Let go of the reins of the saints and let God lead them in giving without your hand pressing down the scales and you'll find that Spirit filled saints giving out of love and not threat will give more to the work...that principle is from the New Testament but then that'd require folks to operate in some faith...

I’m not talking about giving out of fear.

I’m talking about how 1God posted, about his giving. He rated his Pastor on how he preaches compared to a lifetime tithe. If thats the case, then he needs to find somewhere where he feels its worth his time. And not someone that he rates the message with a dollar.

I used what one preacher said as a principle, not about giving something out of fear.

Also, I’m not talking about O.T giving, IM talking about N.T giving, that “giving” is everything.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by 1 God

Problem is this. The saints are told to "live by faith" and the ministry wants a guaranteed income. They need to practice what they preach too.

You’ll post what your experiencing. Not trying to offend you, yet, Thank God, I’m not surrounded by preachers that tell the church they need a guaranteed income.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by 1 God

You just described "pay to play" or "rent a shepherd" etc. Also, you just described a hireling.

Hireling? Rent a Shepherd? Pay to Play?

What about becoming your own minister? Why don’t you attend church at your home, and not worry about having a “Pastor”. The money you give will go directly to you, you dont have to worry about rating the message.

That right there will save a lot of people a lot of problems.

[diakonos]

I had a pastor that requ... that mentioned many times that people needed to pay tithes on their welfare and food stamps.

ONE TIME
He also stated that not enough families were paying tithes faithfully. He and his family were not going to suffer. He said that they would leave... because MANY churches would love for him to be their pastor.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Thats interesting that you write that encouraging scenario, and then end it with the Pastor that wants money. You have definitely made the case that so many have accused church’s of,
1- There full of Hypocrites
2- They want your Money

My point is that it can’t possibly be a free gift from God if it costs you ten percent of your income from now on. That’s not free. If a man makes a hundred thousand a year and pays ten thousand for ten years to keep from losing his salvation, that would be a million dollars for a salvation that is a free gift. People may question that. Ya think?

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I asked about the Pastor being a blessing to 1God for a reason. And he eventually gave the answer I was looking for. Is the gospel for sale, you tell me, because this will cost you, there is a price you will pay. It’s a free gift to receive, yet it costed the blood in order to make any of this possible.

You see? You just don’t get it. You say it will cost me? The Bible says it is a free gift? You don’t see that something is wrong here?

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Anyways, 1God said this,
It depends on what he preaches. Sometimes we get an earful. Definitely not worth a lifetime tithe. Sometimes I cannot give if there is a giving lecture etc.. You know what I mean.

By what he wrote, and I was his Pastor I would give his money back, and tell him to find a another church. He gives based on what he feels, thats sad.

2Cor.9

[7] Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Paul said for him to give according as he purposeth in his heart. He didn’t say for him to give according to what you tell him to give.

D.C. Moody once said, [/QUOTE]

You see, this bothers me about you, you can quote from the “Millionaire Next Door”, you can quote D.C. Moody, you can quote Verbil Beene, and Murray Burr, it just seems you would eventually slip up and accidentally quote scripture once in awhile. I’m holding out hope.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

if you cant trust me with your tithe, then you cannot trust me with your soul. Agree or not, the principal is true, if you’re at an assembly that you cannot support weather in time, talent, or treasure then you need to find another one.

This statement has been used many times. So allow me to address this. I don’t trust my pastor with my soul, nor do I trust him with my salvation.

Guess who’s responsible for my salvation? It’s me.

Guess who’s responsible for your salvation? That would be you.

What happens if one of the flock you have oversight of isn’t saved? Are you lost as well? You aren’t responsible for their salvation. You are responsible to feed the flock.

1Pet.5

[1] The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
[2] Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre but of a ready mind;

THEY are responsible for their salvation. According to Paul and Timothy anyway.

Phillipians
[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Paul didn’t tell them to make sure they paid the preacher so he could work out their salvation. He said for them to work it out. With fear and trembling. I hope it is a relief for you to realize that everybody’s salvation is not your responsibility.