NT verses about who Jesus was/is

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Who is the Alpha and the Omega?

Rev 1:11 ... Jesus
Rev 21:6 ... Father God
Rev 22:13 ... Jesus

I perceive that your biggest problem is ...
you don't understand/accept that Jesus was both God and man.

John 1:1-14 ... the Word (God) became flesh (Jesus).
And we know that Jesus was also a human being (with flesh and blood).

We know He ate and drank, but my problem is:
the word never says He went to the bathroom!
Woe is me, for I am undone!

How are we doing so far?

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by coksiw

God can manifest himself in different ways for different purposes and in the same time and space, why not? Why two different manifestations of God happening at the same time and space make you think that God must be two or three persons or gods? Just because you can’t understand it?
In Genesis chapter 1. Wasn’t God manifested in two different ways simultaneously while creating things: the utterance of the spoken word and the creating power of his Spirit? Two manifestations working simultaneously, yet the Jewish people never thought of that as two persons. Why would you!!

Yes, excellent, I have often spoken thusly!
If God can be omnipresent (everywhere), what's the big deal
if He choose to present Himself as ONLY Three Manifestations?

Your mistake, obviously, is that you refuse to differentiate between
God the Father and God the Son.

They are One in unity of purpose, etc.

While Jesus was on earth, They talked to each other in the spirit
... perhaps nothing to do with the Holy Spirit ...
but with Their spirits (their spirit-man, er ... spirit-men)!

[BCsenior]

I might be willing to bend a little and agree that
there are 2 sets of Bible verses ... Oneness verses and Trinity verses.

So, lo and behold ... we have the same situation as with:
The "so-called" OSAS - eternal security NT verses!
versus ...
The NT verses that teach against OSAS - eternal security!

Ergo, we MUST RECONCILE all of these verses ...
so they ALL make sense, are accepted, are believed, etc.
(I know how to do it.)

All of the Christian forums are FULL of people
who refuse (or just cannot) RECONCILE these verses!
They all sing this song, "Gee, it's fun to give up!",
as they merrily sin their way to heaven (or they think so).

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Please don't spell it incorrectly ... the slang should be: Gee Hova Witness
Just spoke to 2 JW ladies on the street this morning!

We are very different from JW brother. If you think we are the same, then you are really confused.

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Rev 1:11 ... Jesus
Rev 21:6 ... Father God
Rev 22:13 ... Jesus

Base on what??

Originally Posted by BCsenior

I perceive that your biggest problem is ...
you don't understand/accept that Jesus was both God and man.

Wut??? That what I have been telling you from the beginning!!

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Yes, excellent, I have often spoken thusly!
If God can be omnipresent (everywhere), what's the big deal
if He choose to present Himself as ONLY Three Manifestations?

Your mistake, obviously, is that you refuse to differentiate between
God the Father and God the Son.

They are One in unity of purpose, etc.

While Jesus was on earth, They talked to each other in the spirit
... perhaps nothing to do with the Holy Spirit ...
but with Their spirits (their spirit-man, er ... spirit-men)!

Trinitarians don't use the term manifestation but persons. Three manifestations imply there is one single person behind, one mind, one will. Three Persons imply three minds, three wills.

If you can't understand that separation then you don't really understand your own doctrine of the Trinity. You shouldn't be using the term manifestations at all.

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Trinitarians don't use the term manifestation but persons. Three manifestations imply there is one single person behind, one mind, one will. Three Persons imply three minds, three wills.
If you can't understand that separation then you don't really understand your own doctrine of the Trinity. You shouldn't be using the term manifestations at all.

Yes, I know, but I believe "Manifestations" is more understandable.
Since when are spirit beings "persons"? ... Are angels persons?
Yes, I know ... some people jump through all kinds of hoops,
explaining who a "person" is. Nah!

[BCsenior]

Rev 1:11 ... Jesus
Rev 21:6 ... Father God
Rev 22:13 ... Jesus

Based on reading the passages.
And the NKJV says so!

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Rev 1:11 ... Jesus
Rev 21:6 ... Father God
Rev 22:13 ... Jesus

Based on reading the passages.
And the NKJV says so!

LOL.
Ok, seriously.

Based on reading the passages.

There you are coming to the text with a doctrine already, you are not letting the text speak to you. In the book of revelation, at the very beginning and at the end, it is defining who the alpha and omega is. You can't say that 21:6 is the father because it fits better you doctrine. You need to justify your interpretation better.

And the NKJV says so!

That was funny

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by coksiw

That was funny

Yes, you are hilarious ... because ...
everyone knows who was speaking in Rev 1:11.
Rev 1:12-16 shows us that it was Jesus!

[Costeon]

BCsenior, in a great number of places in the Gospels, we see Jesus and the Father interacting as "persons," i.e., speaking to each other, loving each other, etc. But I am not aware of any examples where we see the Father and the Holy Spirit relating in the same way. Do you have examples of this relationship?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

No idea what you're talking about.
Why don't you explain just one little thing ...
Jesus (God) praying often to Father God.

Please don't spell it incorrectly ... the slang should be: Gee Hova Witness
Just spoke to 2 JW ladies on the street this morning!

People who are deceived, brainwashed with falsehood are in terrible shape!
ONLY God can take the spiritual blindness away!

So, if anyone here is desperate for the Truth,
I encourage you to PRAY with DESPERATION to the Lord God of the Universe!
Then, if He answers you (and not some demon),
you're good to go with the Truth ... whatever it might be!
You won't be testing God ... you'll just be pleading with Him for the Truth.

Explain, two gods having a conversation?
Like Costeon, pointed out, why are there never conversations with Jesus with the Holy Ghost? After all it was the Holy Ghost which overshadowed Mary. Logically making the Holy Ghost Jesus’ father. Another thing, what did you not understand about the Greek usage of one in the verses I pointed out? I showed that Jesus wasn’t speaking as a unified one, but that He was speaking that the Father and Himself were literally one. One in number, the same, Jesus is the Father. Jesus sets the example. Did He need baptism? No, but He did it to fulfill all righteousness. Did He need to pray? Why? But He did it because He is God manifested in human flesh setting the example for His followers. There is only One God, and there is only one name. Not three gods. Also for all of you who constantly say how Trinitarians don’t believe in three gods, keep reading BCSenior’s posts. He doesn’t just separate persons, but also deity.