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  #181  
Old 08-06-2019, 10:31 AM
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGlen View Post
The scripture please.
I’m not fond where it says it is THE evidence.
I understand how we come up with tongues as AN evidence, I am looking for where it says it is THE evidence, as you posted.
If anyone doesn't read this as plainly being the evidence, then I don't know what to say. It would seem, IMO, a weak attempt at denial. Acts 10 is much too strong a passage to ignore. It speaks to what happened on the Day of Pentecost as a continuing occurrence.

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And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in other tongues and praising God. Then Peter asked, “Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?” Acts 10:45-47
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  #182  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:32 PM
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

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Originally Posted by JamesGlen View Post
The scripture please.
I’m not fond where it says it is THE evidence.
I understand how we come up with tongues as AN evidence, I am looking for where it says it is THE evidence, as you posted.
You are looking for a single verse which reads "Tongues is the evidence that one has received the Holy Spirit" and you can't find it? That's fine, because you won't find such a verse in the Bible.

But that's not the point, here, is it? Orthodoxy can be established regarding speaking with other tongues as the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit by the accurate and necessary linking of several verses of Holy Scripture and how Apostles of Jesus Christ interpreted them.

Joel 2:28 lets us know that God intended to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.

Do you agree that when God did this on Pentecost, God pouring out His Spirit is equivalent to "receiving the Holy Spirit"?

Joel 2:28 then reads that when God pours His Spirit out on all flesh, sons and daughters would prophesy, young men would have visions and old men would dream dreams.

When Pentecost occurred in Acts 2 is there any reference to anyone having visions or dreaming dreams?

Since the only remaining factor at play from Joel 2:28 is prophesying, do you believe the disciples prophesied when they received the Holy Spirit?

If so, how did they prophesy? That is, in what manner did it occur? In their native language(s)? Or in tongues?

When Simon said "this is that" in reference to Joel 2:28, since there was no mention of visions or dreams in Acts 2, and since prophesying is the only category remaining, and since the disciples spoke in other tongues, declaring the wonderful work of God, the only conclusion is that speaking with other tongues is how sons and daughters would prophesy according to Joel 2:28.

If you had been there at Pentecost and the rushing mighty wind came blowing in and a cloven tongue like as of fire appeared and sat over you, what would have happened to you?

You would have spoken with other tongues, right? Jesus the same today, yesterday, and forever, right? He has an unchangeable priesthood, right? Whatever He first did to reconcile and save are the very same things He does today, or He or His priesthood has changed.

If you were there on Pentecost and the wind blew, and the fire appeared, but nothing else happened, could Simon have quoted from Joel? Would you have any reason to believe the wind and fire were what proved you have received the Holy Spirit?

In Elijah's day, there was a great wind, a great fire, and even a great earthquake, but God wasn't in them, was He? What was God in? HE WAS IN THE VOICE.

Just like Jesus said in John 3:8. So, again, I assert now what I asserted at first: if speaking with other tongues isn't THE sign of receiving the Holy Spirit, there is NO SIGN AT ALL.
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  #183  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:36 PM
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

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Originally Posted by JamesGlen View Post
Cant get along w one another, but “we’ve got the truth”, and everyone besides onesness Pentecostals doesn’t have the truth, and are not saved or born again....

Possible I suppose.
False dichotomy. Lots of people have troubled marriages and unhappy children, yet people still want to get married and have children. Saints may quarrel or not get on well together, but it doesn't mean they don't have truth or that people don't want the truth they have.
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  #184  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:39 PM
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
So Antipas was Aquila? The old folks have a saying, “even a blind hog can find an acorn, sometimes.” So since we are all concerned about truth, answer a question for me Votive Soul.

Are Rev Ike and Chris the same person?

Yes?

No?

Keep it simple and truthful. Because if they are the same person, Rev Ike just told a whopper. If they are not the same, EB’s discernment is as I put it “perhaps a bit rusty “.

So, Votive Soul, are Rev Ike and Chris the same person?

Yes?

No?
Here is something we can concern ourselves with discernment-wise:

Do members including the leadership of your church know what you believe and post about here at AFF? Or is it all a secret to them while they think you are towing the line?
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  #185  
Old 08-07-2019, 04:32 PM
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

Votive Soul,

I said this. I twice asked a yes or no question. Then you responded below.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
So Antipas was Aquila? The old folks have a saying, “even a blind hog can find an acorn, sometimes.” So since we are all concerned about truth, answer a question for me Votive Soul.

Are Rev Ike and Chris the same person?

Yes?

No?

Keep it simple and truthful. Because if they are the same person, Rev Ike just told a whopper. If they are not the same, EB’s discernment is as I put it “perhaps a bit rusty “.

So, Votive Soul, are Rev Ike and Chris the same person?

Yes?

No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Here is something we can concern ourselves with discernment-wise:

Do members including the leadership of your church know what you believe and post about here at AFF? Or is it all a secret to them while they think you are towing the line?
I really tried to ask a straightforward question, in hopes of getting a truthful, straightforward and accurate answer. Then you copy my question and ask ME a bunch of questions, meanwhile not answering mine. Votive Soul you’re better than this. Evidently I really made you angry. Let’s focus on being brothers.

Remember telling me how wrong I was? And how right EB was?

Rev Ike is only one example. How many others has EB accused (falsely) of being Chris/Aquila? It seems that I remember more examples. Maybe I’m wrong.
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  #186  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:36 PM
JamesGlen JamesGlen is offline
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
You are looking for a single verse which reads "Tongues is the evidence that one has received the Holy Spirit" and you can't find it? That's fine, because you won't find such a verse in the Bible.

But that's not the point, here, is it? Orthodoxy can be established regarding speaking with other tongues as the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit by the accurate and necessary linking of several verses of Holy Scripture and how Apostles of Jesus Christ interpreted them.

Joel 2:28 lets us know that God intended to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.

Do you agree that when God did this on Pentecost, God pouring out His Spirit is equivalent to "receiving the Holy Spirit"?

Joel 2:28 then reads that when God pours His Spirit out on all flesh, sons and daughters would prophesy, young men would have visions and old men would dream dreams.

When Pentecost occurred in Acts 2 is there any reference to anyone having visions or dreaming dreams?


Was Joel lying?

Since the only remaining factor at play from Joel 2:28 is prophesying, do you believe the disciples prophesied when they received the Holy Spirit?

If so, how did they prophesy? That is, in what manner did it occur? In their native language(s)? Or in tongues?

When Simon said "this is that" in reference to Joel 2:28, since there was no mention of visions or dreams in Acts 2, and since prophesying is the only category remaining, and since the disciples spoke in other tongues, declaring the wonderful work of God, the only conclusion is that speaking with other tongues is how sons and daughters would prophesy according to Joel 2:28.

If you had been there at Pentecost and the rushing mighty wind came blowing in and a cloven tongue like as of fire appeared and sat over you, what would have happened to you?

You would have spoken with other tongues, right? Jesus the same today, yesterday, and forever, right? He has an unchangeable priesthood, right? Whatever He first did to reconcile and save are the very same things He does today, or He or His priesthood has changed.

If you were there on Pentecost and the wind blew, and the fire appeared, but nothing else happened, could Simon have quoted from Joel? Would you have any reason to believe the wind and fire were what proved you have received the Holy Spirit?

In Elijah's day, there was a great wind, a great fire, and even a great earthquake, but God wasn't in them, was He? What was God in? HE WAS IN THE VOICE.

Just like Jesus said in John 3:8. So, again, I assert now what I asserted at first: if speaking with other tongues isn't THE sign of receiving the Holy Spirit, there is NO SIGN AT ALL.
So out of Joels entire spill on “this is that”, you don’t believe any of that happened because the scripture didn’t mention it? Joel says this is that, young men seeing visions, old men dreaming dreaming, sons and daughters prophesying HAD to be in an unknown language? Am I following you? Phillip was there, and his 4 daughters were prophetesses, so obviously they prophesied, yet their prophesying, whether in an unknown tongue or not, wouldve been part of THE evidence of Spirit baptism, correct? If not, why not? Surely you aren’t thinking Peter quotes Joel, but what ALL Joel said would happen did NOT happen as part of THE evidence of God pouring out of His Spirit?


Are you assuming “this is that” there were no visions,or dreams, or prophesying in a known language, as outpouring evidence because it was not mentioned, even though Joel said “these things” are that?


Just trying to follow your thinking.

Last edited by JamesGlen; 08-07-2019 at 08:57 PM.
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  #187  
Old 08-07-2019, 09:08 PM
JamesGlen JamesGlen is offline
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

Votive, in light of John 7:39 & “pre acts 2 outpouring”, I am curious as to your thoughts of WHY didn’t Zacharias speak in an unknown tongue when he was filled with the Holyghost, or even Elizabeth for that matter?


I’ve heard the notion of the untamed unruly member the tongue as being the example of reasoning for acts 2 and following....whether accurate or not, but would like to know your thoughts as to why no tongues w John’s dad and mom.

Last edited by JamesGlen; 08-07-2019 at 09:13 PM.
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  #188  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:44 PM
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
Votive Soul,

I said this. I twice asked a yes or no question. Then you responded below.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
So Antipas was Aquila? The old folks have a saying, “even a blind hog can find an acorn, sometimes.” So since we are all concerned about truth, answer a question for me Votive Soul.

Are Rev Ike and Chris the same person?

Yes?

No?

Keep it simple and truthful. Because if they are the same person, Rev Ike just told a whopper. If they are not the same, EB’s discernment is as I put it “perhaps a bit rusty “.

So, Votive Soul, are Rev Ike and Chris the same person?

Yes?

No?



I really tried to ask a straightforward question, in hopes of getting a truthful, straightforward and accurate answer. Then you copy my question and ask ME a bunch of questions, meanwhile not answering mine. Votive Soul you’re better than this. Evidently I really made you angry. Let’s focus on being brothers.

Remember telling me how wrong I was? And how right EB was?

Rev Ike is only one example. How many others has EB accused (falsely) of being Chris/Aquila? It seems that I remember more examples. Maybe I’m wrong.
I don't consider you anything less than a brother. And I'm not angry, but you are in the wrong on this.

Because of your personal, unresolved animus toward Evangelist Benincasa, you took it upon yourself to poison the well in regards to Rev. Ike. You went to a new member and decided it was your job to set thing in order. You didn't allow Rev. Ike to ask his own questions, to determine for himself what he thinks of EB, or go about his business in whatever way he pleases.

If you had left it alone, and not opened your keyboard, Rev. Ike would likely have continued on as a member, since he gave no indication of leaving until after YOU attempted to roast EB over the coals.

Then, in full indication of your complete ignorance, you went further into things you had no idea about regarding Chris/Aquila/Antipas. Where was your discernment? How do you call someone out for not being discerning enough when you weren't discerning enough to realize Antipas was Chris/Aquila?

Beams and motes, brother.

So I reproved you for your wrong, and it had no effect whatever. None. Instead, you continued in your scorn for EB, still wanting to show him up for what you perceive to be his lack of discernment, while you clearly don't have any.

And now, you demand answers. This is hubris, plain and simple. Your bias and anger toward EB has blinded you and allowed you to feel justified in your behavior. You are not justified one bit. You owe Rev. Ike an apology for poisoning his well and chasing him off, even if he never comes back here to to see it.

Is Rev. Ike Chris? None of your business. However, Rev. Ike has spoken for himself and EB has openly stated Rev. Ike is not Chris. So what more do you want? A pound of flesh?

Now, how is the discernment at your local church? You are anti-tithe in a church that preaches tithes as mandatory, right? You are anti-monarchial bishopric in a church that has a monarchial bishop (that is, a senior pastor), right? You are anti-tongues are THE sign or evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit in a church that believes that speaking with other tongues is THE sign or evidence that one has received the Holy Spirit, right?

So, if you want to be concerned with anyone's discernment, why not aim your concern at your local assembly and church leadership? Because either they are completely clueless as to what you believe and have no idea that there is a major dissenter in their midst, or THEY ARE NOT.

Either way, that should be a lot more concerning to you than whatever EB can or cannot discern.

Capiche?
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Last edited by votivesoul; 08-08-2019 at 07:46 PM.
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  #189  
Old 08-08-2019, 09:19 PM
JamesGlen JamesGlen is offline
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

Just curious, Votive (or EB) what was the purpose in EB calling Ike, Chris(then later said Ike was not Chris)?



I didn’t get that...


Did he not ever really think he was Chris?

Did he at first think he was Chris, then suddenly changed his mind?

What was the deal there?
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  #190  
Old 08-08-2019, 09:33 PM
JamesGlen JamesGlen is offline
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
I don't consider you anything less than a brother. And I'm not angry, but you are in the wrong on this.

Because of your personal, unresolved animus toward Evangelist Benincasa, you took it upon yourself to poison the well in regards to Rev. Ike. You went to a new member and decided it was your job to set thing in order. You didn't allow Rev. Ike to ask his own questions, to determine for himself what he thinks of EB, or go about his business in whatever way he pleases.

If you had left it alone, and not opened your keyboard, Rev. Ike would likely have continued on as a member, since he gave no indication of leaving until after YOU attempted to roast EB over the coals.

Then, in full indication of your complete ignorance, you went further into things you had no idea about regarding Chris/Aquila/Antipas. Where was your discernment? How do you call someone out for not being discerning enough when you weren't discerning enough to realize Antipas was Chris/Aquila?

Beams and motes, brother.

So I reproved you for your wrong, and it had no effect whatever. None. Instead, you continued in your scorn for EB, still wanting to show him up for what you perceive to be his lack of discernment, while you clearly don't have any.

And now, you demand answers. This is hubris, plain and simple. Your bias and anger toward EB has blinded you and allowed you to feel justified in your behavior. You are not justified one bit. You owe Rev. Ike an apology for poisoning his well and chasing him off, even if he never comes back here to to see it.

Is Rev. Ike Chris? None of your business. However, Rev. Ike has spoken for himself and EB has openly stated Rev. Ike is not Chris. So what more do you want? A pound of flesh?

Now, how is the discernment at your local church? You are anti-tithe in a church that preaches tithes as mandatory, right? You are anti-monarchial bishopric in a church that has a monarchial bishop (that is, a senior pastor), right? You are anti-tongues are THE sign or evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit in a church that believes that speaking with other tongues is THE sign or evidence that one has received the Holy Spirit, right?

So, if you want to be concerned with anyone's discernment, why not aim your concern at your local assembly and church leadership? Because either they are completely clueless as to what you believe and have no idea that there is a major dissenter in their midst, or THEY ARE NOT.


Either way, that should be a lot more concerning to you than whatever EB can or cannot discern.

Capiche?


With all due respect brother, what business is that of yours?



There are tons of people that attend church, sit week in and week out listening to a pastor give his opinions to the church members, they soak it in, write him a check, and go home. Week in, week out. With zero time for dialogue of the scriptures, because layity has nothing to offer clergy when it comes to rightly dividing the word. That’s why visiting preachers holler at the pew people to “Tap yourself on the chest and say my man a God! Or “wherever your man if God is, there where the ark of the covenant is!” Or “It’s not up to you to question the man of God!”
So, instead of studying and debating what’s right on a forum, I guess you just figure they ought to tuck tail and go to a Trinitarian church, or a totally against tongues church, c of c that don’t believe in the miraculous, right? Is that what you do? I’ll tell ya, no it’s not what you do. You keep studying, you discuss on line with other believers, and do your best to try not to call dissension where you attend, while still being a BEREAN. Searching the scriptures to see if what you’re hearing is accurate.

Last edited by JamesGlen; 08-08-2019 at 10:32 PM.
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