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  #71  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:26 AM
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Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

I notice it's the "liberated by grace" group that cuss, listen to ungodly music etc...all the while thinking it's grace. Some make grace look bad.
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  #72  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:29 AM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shephard View Post
You have a very myopic view of what the Kingdom of God is about. It is not all about a large altar call. The people have to get in the door first. How can they be drawn in? With many different things and ideas.
So for you to speak things like this about Oprah, Jakes, Osteen... it shows that you aren't happy with God speaking to people where they are at and attempting to change them you want God to ONLY speak to saved people with saved people and be a ............, unhappy saved group of people.
Well you just proved you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
1)The Kingdom of God is about reconciling men to Christ, in submission to Christ, for God's will to be done in the earth as it is in heaven. The angels rejoice over one sinner who comes to repentance, not over masses of people who just came in the doors.
2)If you believe that I think God should only speak to saved people, again, you show yourself completely uninformed. I speak to unsaved people all the time. I do ministry in a place most likely to find the "most" unsaved of all people. I'm not going to talk about what I do, because its doesn't need to be discussed publically and secondly, it doesn't matter. I can't do anything without Christ.
3)Whatever you draw people with, and win them with, is what you keep them with. If you draw people through carnality, through gimmicks, through celebrities, through contest, through secular music, through provoking sermon series that push the envelope, through surveys about what they want to hear preached, through prosperity, through feeling good about themselves and positive self image, then that's how you keep them. Really you haven't helped people, you've crippled their potential for spiritual growth and given them a crutch to prop themselves up.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shephard View Post
Salvation is important, but it is not the end of the road. It is a stop along the way.
Salvation is more than important, if we bypass salvation and try to get people to feel good about themselves in their current state without Jesus, then all we've done in solidify them in their unbelief, and make them feel sufficient and satisfied without Christ. So in theory we say we're bringing them to the Savior, but in practice we are compounding their lostness.

If someone doesn't receive Bible salvation, their not even on the road. I've never said salvation was it, that's another misunderstanding on your part, and again, I've got 4,000 posts on AFF you can look through before you make accusations and misrepresentations of my position. I think this is a common strawman thrown out that "conservatives" don't care about reaching the lost, or ministering to hurting people where they are at, it is totally false and deceitful. And I for one get sick of having it thrown at me simply because I'm biblically conservative. I'm not saying you made the charge, but your post seems to indicate this familiar strawman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shephard View Post
Life has to be lived and it is my experience that where religion falls way short is when it teaches salvation is or as a end result of something. Salvation isn't the end of the road, but most denominations teach salvation, standards of dress or whatever as an end all be all to salvation. Salvation is a pit stop on the way from beginning of life to the end of our lives. There are stops and breakdowns all along the way man. We don't pull off the highway at Salvation Way and leave our cars idling the rest of our lives.
Life DOES have to be lived. How is that life lived without Christ. Salvation must come FIRST not LAST. We don't draw people out on a long road where we try to minister to all their life problems, then at the end say "now that your family life is in order, now that you feel good about yourself, now that you are prospering, THIS is what it really means to be a disciple of Christ" and then teach them the gospel. NO. We start with "Except a man take up deny Himself and come after me, He cannot be my disciple." "Except a man hate his father, mother, brothers, sisters, wives, children he cannot be my disciple" "If you seek to save your life you will lose is, but if you seek to lose your life you will save it", "verily you are only here for the fishes and the loaves, but whosever will not eat my flesh and drink my blood hath no life in them" See that how Jesus did evangelism, perhaps the liberal commentator William Barclay said it best in his commentary on Mark 8:34-35
(I paraphrase from memory)
"It can never be said of Jesus that he got men to follow Him under false pretenses. He always told them to count the cost, and that it could cost them their life."

What a great statement. Jesus himself NEVER tried to get people to follow Him through false pretenses or empty promises. Look how he reacted to the crowds, by teaching them about commitment (and they all left him every time), or in Mark 1 when the crowd comes seeking Jesus after all the healings at Peter's moms house , and Jesus says "lets go to another place", and how would these Mega pastors respond to the rich young ruler? Surely he would find a prominent place of acceptance in their churches, not only was he rich but also moral. But not Jesus.

We can't use the seeker sensitive movement as our guide for evangelism, Jesus set the example. Reach out to everyone, regardless of if they are poor, afflicted, abused, addicted, dishonest, immoral, religious, etc. But always teach them what true conversion is. Always make sure they count the cost. Always make sure they understand what is involved in following Jesus. He's not interested in numbers and masses, he's interested in reconciliation of God and man.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards

"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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  #73  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:30 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

I'm not one who thinks cussing is a sin, but I do thinkit reveals a lot about the character and respect of a person who uses it. If you are a person of character, morals and have respect for yourself and others, you don't go around cussing like trashy people. I have a hard time believing one really loves God if they can't speak without popping off a bunch of cuss words.
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  #74  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:31 AM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shephard View Post
You are right! Everyone has something to say. Everyone has good info to give. If you don't want to listen to what Dhali Lama, Hawkins, or Spears has to say then close your ears and listen to noboy but Stoneking and Arnold.
Oh this is rich. Stoneking and Arnold.

Bro. I like Paul Washer, Leonard, Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, John MacArthur, to name a few. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with some of those men, rather than Jakes, Winfrey, Dollar.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards

"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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  #75  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:33 AM
n david n david is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shephard View Post
Salvation is important, but it is not the end of the road. It is a stop along the way. Life has to be lived and it is my experience that where religion falls way short is when it teaches salvation is or as a end result of something. Salvation isn't the end of the road, but most denominations teach salvation, standards of dress or whatever as an end all be all to salvation. Salvation is a pit stop on the way from beginning of life to the end of our lives. There are stops and breakdowns all along the way man. We don't pull off the highway at Salvation Way and leave our cars idling the rest of our lives.
That explains a lot. "Salvation is important..." Not "salvation is essential," or "salvation is a necessity." Nah, it's "important." Just "a stop along the way."
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  #76  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:35 AM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

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Originally Posted by Jack Shephard View Post
I actually tell some of my friends "F - you" and flip them the bird and it has become a literal term of endearment between us. But to you it woudn't be valid because it is between myself and my gay friends. So that is a double whammy on way I will spilt hell wide over. I use these words frequently. I had a conversation recently where I used these words and talked about Jesus too and guess what... people were moved to tears laughing as well as they had a legit God moment then too. So you keep your mindset the way that it is and I will keep mine the way that it is too.
This is the definition of STRONG DELUSION.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards

"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship

"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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  #77  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:58 AM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
You're blinded. If you really believe James is only talking about someone placing a hex or voodoo curse on someone, you're wrong. The passage speaks of offending in word, of the tongue being full of deadly poison, and of sweet and bitter water not being able to come from the same spring. That is not speaking of a hex.

BTW the nerd analogy is lame. #fail


Sad.
Nah... nerd is more tame than the words I wanna use, but since using swear words are forbidden here and aparently in all the world too... I use the word Nerd. A curse in scripture isn't the same as saying what is considered as "cursing" today. Context convey the true meaning of a thing. Check the facts...
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  #78  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:00 AM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

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Originally Posted by Jason Badejo View Post
Oh this is rich. Stoneking and Arnold.

Bro. I like Paul Washer, Leonard, Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, John MacArthur, to name a few. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with some of those men, rather than Jakes, Winfrey, Dollar.
I know of these men. I like them. FTR, I am not a fan of Jakes, Oprah or Dollar, at all. But just because I am not a fan doesn't mean they are not vaild to some others.
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  #79  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:01 AM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

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Originally Posted by Jason Badejo View Post
Please don't act as if cussing is a righteous thing. Brother do you believe the Lord Jesus Christ used the equivalent of modern profanity in his culture? Whose is the example, who do we want to be like, Steve Harvey, Oprah Winfrey, or Jesus Christ? Perhaps that as big a part of the problem as anything else, is who are we pointing people to? Celebrities or Jesus Christ? Point people to Christ, preach His righteousness. Do that and NONE of us measure up, but at least we know what the standard is, and thus when we experience failure (and we ALL will) we won't accept our failure, because its the same failure of Steve Harvey, Oprah Winfrey, or even "yo mama".

As for the question of cussing, (or really how a godly person should talk in general, not just the words used, but the intent) lets consider a couple of scriptures in addition to N David's post:

Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
Prov 4:24 (KJV)

If we are told to put it away from us, it would seem we should strive to do that very thing. Doesn't mean one cuss word sends us to hell, God forbid. I don't cuss, haven't since I received the Holy Ghost, but still fail at times to express myself in ways that are absolutely inline with godliness. I failed just yesterday when admonishing a store manager who works under me, in that I used the phrase "pissed off". Not a big deal to most people, not a "cuss" word by most peoples definition (including mine), but it wasn't the way a Christian should speak. I apologized to him later in the day, even though I am his superior. I fail, Steve Harvey fails, everyone fails. But when we do fail, we can't accept that failure and sanctify it, we need to own up to it, so that Christ can change us. If we say that there are "cuss appropriate moments" then I have real doubts people who subscribe to that view will ever really see total deliverance from that way of speaking in their life, because they've made it acceptable. Its OK to fail Christ at times, even "appropriate". It is NEVER appropriate to fail Christ. It happens. We should never be content to live with it.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:8-10 (KJV)

Would "cuss appropriate situations" including giving place to anger, wrath, malice, and filthy communication out of your mouth? I think most would agree it would. So why do we try to act like cussing isn't a big deal, and get all offended when someone suggests it is a sin. Are not these things in Colossians 3:8 "sins"? If not why warn against them, especially in the context of Colossians 3 where Paul is telling the Colossians to put off all the sinful ways of their unredeemed life.

5 Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. 6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
Col 4:5-6 (KJV)

Here Paul tells believers they ought always to walk with wisdom toward them that are without (outside the body of Christ) in particular Paul talks about how we as Christians talk. I wonder how cussing is consistent with "graceful speech". I'm going to go out on a limb and say cussing is never graceful, nor appropriate, no matter what anyone's mama says.

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:29-31 (KJV)

It just seems so self explanatory to me. I don't understand how this is even a debated topic amongst Christians, except for to pander to the carnal nature, and to make a provision for the flesh.
I am pretty sure Christ was pissed at the temple and there is a strong chance that He would have used words that in the day He lived weren't too... shall we say, righteous.
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  #80  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:03 AM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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Re: MegaFest 2013

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
You are fooling yourself.
Nah... pretty sure I am not fooled. I understand what I am saying.
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