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WPF News Discussion of the WWPF meetings in Tulsa and related sidetracks.


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  #61  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:24 PM
consapente89 consapente89 is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakingDominion View Post
who is your neighbor?
Jesus command to love your neighbor does not mean give place to his false doctrine!!!!

That's not love, man!
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  #62  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:33 PM
consapente89 consapente89 is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

The concept that loving people trumps loving truth is astounding to me. Jesus said the entire law HANGS ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS. In other words, these two commandments and the rest of the law work together. The clear command to "neither give place to the devil" or to "receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed" or "mark them which cause divisions CONTRARY to the doctrine" or "if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" does not contradict Jesus command to love.

I think your mistake is you are more in love with the idea of pleasing people than you are loving God or his truth. You got the commandments backward man.
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  #63  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:30 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89 View Post
The concept that loving people trumps loving truth is astounding to me. Jesus said the entire law HANGS ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS. In other words, these two commandments and the rest of the law work together. The clear command to "neither give place to the devil" or to "receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed" or "mark them which cause divisions CONTRARY to the doctrine" or "if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" does not contradict Jesus command to love.

I think your mistake is you are more in love with the idea of pleasing people than you are loving God or his truth. You got the commandments backward man.
The notion comes from the following texts (note the emphasis while reading)...
Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:8-10 (KJV)
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 (KJV)
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The idea is that the spirit and intent of the entire OT can be fulfilled in living by two simple commandments:
1.) Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
2.) Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus stated that the second law is "like unto" the first, meaning that it is of equal value, and intrinsically connected. Therefore, one is to love the Lord their God with all their being, and they are to demonstrate their love for God by loving others as themselves. In living by these two commandments, the spirit and intent of the entire OT law is fulfilled in one fell swoop.

How does this work?

Well, first this isn't the sentimental kind of love like loving people purely based on individual emotion, experience, and preference. This is the agape kind of love that comes from cultivating the mind of Christ through prayer and study of the Word. It is allowing your love for God to produce in you the very love of God that it might flow through you into the lives of others. This is the Law of Christ, the Law of Liberty.

Think about it, one can refrain from killing, lying, stealing, seducing another's spouse, etc., and not truly love them. So, merely keeping the letter of the Law of Moses doesn't fulfill the Law of Christ. However, if one simply loves their neighbor, they will not even conceive of killing them, lying to them, stealing from them, seducing their spouse, etc. Therefore, in just loving others, one fulfills the entire law.

Also, when one does sin, let's say they steal from their neighbor.... the problem isn't that they took another person's property. The problem is that they didn't love that person enough NOT to steal from them. And, no man can claim he loves God if he hates his neighbor. So, the root of sin is a lack of love for God and others. In simply cultivating the love of God in one's life, one discovers the true path, the very essence of holiness, for God is love. And if God is love, it is when we are the most loving that we are the most like Him.

One can focus on true doctrine and have all their "I" dotted and "T's" crossed, and not love people. One can dress the part, obeying "holiness standards", and not love people. So, we know that to focus on those things is truly not the way. However, if one truly loves God, they will hunger and thirst for true doctrine. In addition, one will desire to live a modest and holy life as a witness to others and to avoid being a stumbling block for any who might be seeking truth and salvation.

Legalism focuses on laws. Legalists can pick and choose various laws from the OT while ignoring others. Some keep Sabbath laws, others don't. Some keep dietary laws, others don't. Some keep various individual church standards that aren't found in other churches. Each legalistic list is different. This shows how subjective legalism can be. It leaves one's entire walk with God adrift on the ever shifting sea of human interpretation and opinion. However loving God and loving others elevates the individual to a holiness infinitely beyond anything any combination of laws from the law can produce, freeing one from the letter of the law and bringing one into the fulfillment of the law's spirit and intent as a whole.

Also, the law of love applies to the entirety of one's life. One might ask, is eating pork a sin? Well...if eating pork would cause one's brother to stumble or be offended, then yes, it is a sin to eat it in front of them. Because love would never allow another to stumble or to be offended. And so love is applied to all areas of one's walk with God. Is it a sin to wear this or that? Would it offend, entice, tempt, cause one to stumble? If so, then yes, it is a sin to wear whatever one is referring to.

It is for these reasons that the Law of Love, the Law of Christ, the very Law of Liberty is considered the core of Christian living, the very essence of true holiness. It is this Law of Christ that conforms one into the very image and likeness of Jesus Himself. Living by the Law of Moses will only conform one into the image and likeness of ancient Israel. Living by church standards and ordinances will only conform one into the image and likeness of a given church. However, love... love will conform one into the image and likeness of Jesus Christ. And so, in focusing on love, one becomes a living extension of Jesus Himself, a branch of the true vine. Producing the fruit of the Spirit daily as they walk this narrow path.

Some will struggle with how simple this is because they are used to a list of do's and don'ts as long as their arm. But simplicity is the mark of true sophistication. It is this child like simplicity that will cause many who pride themselves on their own contrived combinations of laws to stumble and fall from grace.

The Law of Love also brings sin into greater focus. For example, the Holy Spirit spoke to me one day saying, "You sinned against me today." Now, I hadn't noticed anything in my life that day that was sinful. So I prayed, "How did I sin against you today, Lord?" He said, "When you drove past that man parked on the side of the highway." The Lord went on to chasten me about how love would have stopped and made sure he was okay. How love would have offered him use of my phone, or given him a ride, or bought him gas if he needed it. God worked me over real good and then said, "For whatsoever you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me." I left Jesus stranded on the road that day and didn't even stop to see if He was okay.... I wept bitter tears asking God to give me a heart filled with love so that I see Him everywhere, in everyone, behind everything. Please note, there is no law in the OT that would require me to stop to check on a motorist. But the Law of Love does. As a result, when one embarks on this path of love in all sincerity they will discover that it is an ocean of divine calling that leaves the Law of Moses fading in the background as they discover how unloving they truly are from day to day in their conversations, thoughts, attitude, actions, goals, and intentions. Every single thing comes into focus and is compared to what it means to live a life of love. And so, while it is simply to articulate, it becomes challenging to uphold. And so love calls on complete surrender from the time you get up and discover your wife didn't make the coffee like you asked, and you're in a rush to work, to passing a motorist, smiling back and saying hello to a lost soul as they walk past you on the street, how you discuss the issues of the day. It's no walk in the park to strive to live by the love of God. But it is how we can truly be holy as He is holy... because God is love.

Many won't be able to see this. Many don't. However, there are those who the Lord is calling into these deep waters...they will see, and understand. And if they take this path, they will discover not only great liberty...but an even greater responsibility.

May the very love of God bless and keep you and yours.

God bless.
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  #64  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:35 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89 View Post
Giving trinitarians a platform to preach their false doctrine is neither loving them nor saving them. I'm sure our house churchers could really jump on this. NT church meetings were typically house to house. The apostle's warning to not receive anyone into your house that was not preaching this gospel was not about sitting down and sharing a meal or entertaining a guest. It was about offering a platform, a preaching point to someone who was preaching a different Jesus and a different gospel. If you believe that trinitarians are representatives of the true church and the true message of salvation then by all means, do what ever you want to do to support their "ministry". If they are not representing Jesus and his church however, we err if we do ANYTHING to advance their cause. The two scriptures listed are good scriptures and to be followed. To use them as justification for supporting a trinitarian ministry is a gross misrepresentation of the text.
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  #65  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:42 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakingDominion View Post
so I have a friend in Indiana who's church just burnt down. Not sure all of the details. No one was hurt. The building is a total loss. My point is, they are in need of a place to worship while they try to rebuild. Interestingly enough, this Apostolic Oneness Pastor had 3 local churches of varying denominations (none of them Oneness or even Pentecostal) that offered him to hold services in their buildings FREE OF CHARGE. And I thought to myself, being the deep thinker that I am; would many of our Apostolic churches make the same offer if one of those "other" churches burnt down? Or would we in our doctrinal stance on truth, not allow those stinkin Trinitarians on our blessed platforms?

Most of what I'm saying his tongue in cheek, but the point remains.

God bless
The terminology you chose says a lot. Are you in this thing to win, or to enjoy the ride (win or lose not being a consideration)?

If a Mosque allowed this church to meet in their building, would that mean churches ought to allow Muslims to set up shop in their sanctuaries? Or let the imam take the pulpit as a "guest preacher"?

" Oh, but Islam is another religion! Trinitarians aren't part of another religion." Well then, perhaps you aren't actually apostolic?
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  #66  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:47 PM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
The notion comes from the following texts (note the emphasis while reading)...
Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:8-10 (KJV)
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 (KJV)
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The idea is that the spirit and intent of the entire OT can be fulfilled in living by two simple commandments:
1.) Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
2.) Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus stated that the second law is "like unto" the first, meaning that it is of equal value, and intrinsically connected. Therefore, one is to love the Lord their God with all their being, and they are to demonstrate their love for God by loving others as themselves. In living by these two commandments, the spirit and intent of the entire OT law is fulfilled in one fell swoop.

How does this work?

Well, first this isn't the sentimental kind of love like loving people purely based on individual emotion, experience, and preference. This is the agape kind of love that comes from cultivating the mind of Christ through prayer and study of the Word. It is allowing your love for God to produce in you the very love of God that it might flow through you into the lives of others. This is the Law of Christ, the Law of Liberty.

Think about it, one can refrain from killing, lying, stealing, seducing another's spouse, etc., and not truly love them. So, merely keeping the letter of the Law of Moses doesn't fulfill the Law of Christ. However, if one simply loves their neighbor, they will not even conceive of killing them, lying to them, stealing from them, seducing their spouse, etc. Therefore, in just loving others, one fulfills the entire law.

Also, when one does sin, let's say they steal from their neighbor.... the problem isn't that they took another person's property. The problem is that they didn't love that person enough NOT to steal from them. And, no man can claim he loves God if he hates his neighbor. So, the root of sin is a lack of love for God and others. In simply cultivating the love of God in one's life, one discovers the true path, the very essence of holiness, for God is love. And if God is love, it is when we are the most loving that we are the most like Him.

One can focus on true doctrine and have all their "I" dotted and "T's" crossed, and not love people. One can dress the part, obeying "holiness standards", and not love people. So, we know that to focus on those things is truly not the way. However, if one truly loves God, they will hunger and thirst for true doctrine. In addition, one will desire to live a modest and holy life as a witness to others and to avoid being a stumbling block for any who might be seeking truth and salvation.

Legalism focuses on laws. Legalists can pick and choose various laws from the OT while ignoring others. Some keep Sabbath laws, others don't. Some keep dietary laws, others don't. Some keep various individual church standards that aren't found in other churches. Each legalistic list is different. This shows how subjective legalism can be. It leaves one's entire walk with God adrift on the ever shifting sea of human interpretation and opinion. However loving God and loving others elevates the individual to a holiness infinitely beyond anything any combination of laws from the law can produce, freeing one from the letter of the law and bringing one into the fulfillment of the law's spirit and intent as a whole.

Also, the law of love applies to the entirety of one's life. One might ask, is eating pork a sin? Well...if eating pork would cause one's brother to stumble or be offended, then yes, it is a sin to eat it in front of them. Because love would never allow another to stumble or to be offended. And so love is applied to all areas of one's walk with God. Is it a sin to wear this or that? Would it offend, entice, tempt, cause one to stumble? If so, then yes, it is a sin to wear whatever one is referring to.

It is for these reasons that the Law of Love, the Law of Christ, the very Law of Liberty is considered the core of Christian living, the very essence of true holiness. It is this Law of Christ that conforms one into the very image and likeness of Jesus Himself. Living by the Law of Moses will only conform one into the image and likeness of ancient Israel. Living by church standards and ordinances will only conform one into the image and likeness of a given church. However, love... love will conform one into the image and likeness of Jesus Christ. And so, in focusing on love, one becomes a living extension of Jesus Himself, a branch of the true vine. Producing the fruit of the Spirit daily as they walk this narrow path.

Some will struggle with how simple this is because they are used to a list of do's and don'ts as long as their arm. But simplicity is the mark of true sophistication. It is this child like simplicity that will cause many who pride themselves on their own contrived combinations of laws to stumble and fall from grace.

The Law of Love also brings sin into greater focus. For example, the Holy Spirit spoke to me one day saying, "You sinned against me today." Now, I hadn't noticed anything in my life that day that was sinful. So I prayed, "How did I sin against you today, Lord?" He said, "When you drove past that man parked on the side of the highway." The Lord went on to chasten me about how love would have stopped and made sure he was okay. How love would have offered him use of my phone, or given him a ride, or bought him gas if he needed it. God worked me over real good and then said, "For whatsoever you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me." I left Jesus stranded on the road that day and didn't even stop to see if He was okay.... I wept bitter tears asking God to give me a heart filled with love so that I see Him everywhere, in everyone, behind everything. Please note, there is no law in the OT that would require me to stop to check on a motorist. But the Law of Love does. As a result, when one embarks on this path of love in all sincerity they will discover that it is an ocean of divine calling that leaves the Law of Moses fading in the background as they discover how unloving they truly are from day to day in their conversations, thoughts, attitude, actions, goals, and intentions. Every single thing comes into focus and is compared to what it means to live a life of love. And so, while it is simply to articulate, it becomes challenging to uphold. And so love calls on complete surrender from the time you get up and discover your wife didn't make the coffee like you asked, and you're in a rush to work, to passing a motorist, smiling back and saying hello to a lost soul as they walk past you on the street, how you discuss the issues of the day. It's no walk in the park to strive to live by the love of God. But it is how we can truly be holy as He is holy... because God is love.

Many won't be able to see this. Many don't. However, there are those who the Lord is calling into these deep waters...they will see, and understand. And if they take this path, they will discover not only great liberty...but an even greater responsibility.

May the very love of God bless and keep you and yours.

God bless.
true but remember you also need a hatred for sin and iniquity, shun evil and have no fellowship with the works of darkness. dont be yoked up with unbelievers and dont keep company with homosexuals.
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  #67  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:52 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

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Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
true but remember you also need a hatred for sin and iniquity, shun evil and have no fellowship with the works of darkness. dont be yoked up with unbelievers and dont keep company with homosexuals.
True love hates anything that would destroy the object of its affection. Therefore, true love will hate sin, because one loves the sinner it is destroying.

And you are correct, true love will not fellowship the works of darkness or yoke up with unbelievers or the wicked. Because that would betray the very essence of love, placing one in opposition to love's purpose and intent.
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  #68  
Old 11-14-2018, 04:27 PM
Light Light is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
when I was very ill and there was no Apostolic church in my city, for a short time I went to a nearby AOG church.

I loved the Pastor and church, and the presence of God was there.
But the references to the trinity and baptizing in the titles made me cringe.

Also, knowing that he considered anyone and everyone who had accepted Jesus as saved made me heartsick.
The presence of God in an Idolatry service??????
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  #69  
Old 11-14-2018, 04:50 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
The presence of God in an Idolatry service??????
The presence of God was there, because she was there.

Go and learn what that meaneth.
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  #70  
Old 11-14-2018, 05:34 PM
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jediwill83 jediwill83 is offline
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Re: WPF-what now

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
The presence of God was there, because she was there.

Go and learn what that meaneth.

Yet another ornament for the tree of woe.
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