Now we're going around and around, and I'm getting a bit dizzy and bored.
"I wish I could get a minister to agree with me" related to JA's comments about not being blamed for people sinning. It wasn't for the "you're an idiot" comment. And yes, when a minister says something like, "I wish I could get a minister to agree with me" -- that's fishing for applause. Just like someone saying, "I wish I could get an Amen" is fishing for an Amen. It's quite simple.
You say "you're" is referring to the quote or Maxwell, but not SG...even though JA prefaced it by saying "I don't know which one of you guys said it..." Which means either Maxwell present, or the quote became flesh and was sitting on the platform.
And then you say it's not really the context of the quote that matters now either...it's how JA interpreted the context. So context is subjective. Awesome! Now if I'm accused of taking something out of context I can deny it because context is subjective and open to my personal interpretation.
You can disagree, though I do wish you would simply acknowledge it wasn't right of JA to call SG an idiot and say he needs brain surgery. Again, the "you're" in the sentence means he was not referencing the quote; and the prefaced, "I don't know which one of you guys said it," excludes Maxwell. You wrote about logic above, it's only logical that he was referring to the minister at BOTT who used Maxwell's quote....SG.
Just tried calling White Steeple to order the DVDs, no answer. BOTT '14 isn't for sale on their website yet either. I'm sure they're just behind on getting it on the website....a week after the conference.
Now we're going around and around, and I'm getting a bit dizzy and bored.
"I wish I could get a minister to agree with me" related to JA's comments about not being blamed for people sinning. It wasn't for the "you're an idiot" comment. And yes, when a minister says something like, "I wish I could get a minister to agree with me" -- that's fishing for applause. Just like someone saying, "I wish I could get an Amen" is fishing for an Amen. It's quite simple.
I took it all as collective. If you agree with not being blamed for people sinning, then you are agreeing with the idiot comment as well. After all, that is where the being blamed for people sinning stems from.
It's not quite simple. Fishing is speculative. You present it as an evil intent of manipulation and I don't believe all ministers do that. Sometimes they are excited and sometimes it is just habit.
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You say "you're" is referring to the quote or Maxwell, but not SG...even though JA prefaced it by saying "I don't know which one of you guys said it..." Which means either Maxwell present, or the quote became flesh and was sitting on the platform.
No, it means what he said, "and I KNOW that came from John Maxwell because I heard it". Here he is not placing the blame on the minister who repeated it.
IOW, I take him to be referencing the quote did not originate with the minister in question, thus giving me the impression that he was referencing the quote. When he said "You're an idiot", I took him to be referring to Maxwell and I still do.
I also took his apology for embarrassing the minister in question, who he never named, and not necessarily that he called him the idiot. It may possibly be a misunderstanding. And it certainly was a horrible way to embarrass himself and the minister.
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And then you say it's not really the context of the quote that matters now either...it's how JA interpreted the context. So context is subjective. Awesome! Now if I'm accused of taking something out of context I can deny it because context is subjective and open to my personal interpretation.
Listen to what I am actually saying or I am going to shoot YOU in the derriere.
I SAID JA either got something else out of the quote or the minister misquoted Maxwell. Do you know EXACTLY what the minister said - word for word? Either way, it doesn't really matter. JA got an impression of the quote, whether in or out of context, and expounded on the way he RECEIVED the quote when he heard it. He has a right to do that. It is his opinion and how the comment came across to HIS ears.
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You can disagree, though I do wish you would simply acknowledge it wasn't right of JA to call SG an idiot and say he needs brain surgery. Again, the "you're" in the sentence means he was not referencing the quote; and the prefaced, "I don't know which one of you guys said it," excludes Maxwell. You wrote about logic above, it's only logical that he was referring to the minister at BOTT who used Maxwell's quote....SG.
Sorry, the "you're" doesn't necessarily mean he is not referring to Maxwell. When I heard it the first time, that was my impression - he was referring to Maxwell's quote. And again, whether it was in or out of context, it is how JA received it when he heard it. Maybe all he heard was - it's the minister's fault. Apparently, that is what he felt he heard from the message.
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Just tried calling White Steeple to order the DVDs, no answer. BOTT '14 isn't for sale on their website yet either. I'm sure they're just behind on getting it on the website....a week after the conference.
Yes, please order the DVD's. It won't matter what it says. JA already allowed us to know the impression he received from the text given. That isn't going to change. He responded to what he heard.
Okay, I am with Ferdinand -
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Last edited by Pressing-On; 01-29-2014 at 01:04 PM.
im not siding with JA. nor am I taking shots at him.
Im just not shocked that he said something contriversial. When he isnt asleep, he does that. LOL.
He also says some stuff that folk need to hear and others wont say....
so... there ya go. im pretty much done with this very tired and very dead horss.
That is very likely. I have somewhere about a dozen VHS & or DVD's of sermons of his. I used to be his biggest fan, but I can't follow him anymore as I wouldn't be true to my own convictions if I did. But, I agree with your statement above. Truth comes from varying avenues and orators.
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"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
I took it all as collective. If you agree with not being blamed for people sinning, then you are agreeing with the idiot comment as well. After all, that is where the being blamed for people sinning stems from.
Not true.
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Originally Posted by Pressing-On
No, it means what he said, "and I KNOW that came from John Maxwell because I heard it". Here he is not placing the blame on the minister who repeated it.
Then there's that pesky little issue of JA saying, "I don't know which one of you guys said it..." Then he continued by quoting the "junk" he heard that morning. Tell me, PO, was Maxwell there? Did the quote become flesh and sit on the platform? No and no. "...one of you guys..." was the "idiot" JA was referring to. My 4 year old daughter is able to put 2 and 2 together and understand who JA is talking about here, it's really not that difficult.
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Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Yes, please order the DVD's. It won't matter what it says. JA already allowed us to know the impression he received from the text given. That isn't going to change. He responded to what he heard.
Spoken like a Democrat! Facts be damned! Who cares what SG said or whether or not JA misrepresented and took it out of context. "It won't matter what it says."
Wow! That's how I thought you felt. I'm glad you posted it. You don't care what SG said or whether JA got the quote wrong and misrepresented it. JA can't be wrong, no matter what the actual facts are!
You present it as an evil intent of manipulation and I don't believe all ministers do that. Sometimes they are excited and sometimes it is just habit.
Remember that earlier quote which you said was speculation on my part. Well, this is just a hot steamy pile of speculation. And since I'm the one who wrote it, I'm pretty sure I knew what I meant. It definitely wasn't "evil intent."
Now, were I JA I'd call you an...well you know what he said.
My use of the word "fishing" was not meaning evil intent. I meant it like when someone is "fishing for compliments." No evil intent there.
Most ministers who speak at a conference or convention go fishing at least once or twice in a message. Again, I'm not suggesting some eeeeevvvvillll intent on their part. Like you said, it can be a habit. I've been present and watched JA on DVD go fishing a lot at BOTT. Again, not suggesting he's doing it out of some evil intent or manipulation.
Then there's that pesky little issue of JA saying, "I don't know which one of you guys said it..." Then he continued by quoting the "junk" he heard that morning. Tell me, PO, was Maxwell there? Did the quote become flesh and sit on the platform? No and no. "...one of you guys..." was the "idiot" JA was referring to. My 4 year old daughter is able to put 2 and 2 together and understand who JA is talking about here, it's really not that difficult.
You could possibly be correct. All I am saying is that my first impression on listening to the video was that he was referring to Maxwell's quote. Now that the conversation is being skewed, it's hard to say.
However, I am not the only person who isn't clear about it. Sis. Alvear, as I already posted is saying she is not clear either.
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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear
I was not there but listened to the tape and did not quite come to the conclusion exactly what he meant.
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Spoken like a Democrat! Facts be damned! Who cares what SG said or whether or not JA misrepresented and took it out of context. "It won't matter what it says."
Wow! That's how I thought you felt. I'm glad you posted it. You don't care what SG said or whether JA got the quote wrong and misrepresented it. JA can't be wrong, no matter what the actual facts are!
David, why is it so hard for you to understand that a context being spoken is much different than how it is always received? Are you trying to deny that someone can make a statement having the hearer receive the words another way?
If that were not the case, then why all the back and forth today over the SOTU from last night? It's all in perception, isn't it?
If JA is only hearing - "it's the minister's fault", and gets riled up over that, who are you to say that isn't what he heard or gleaned from the preacher's sermon?
Hit him on using bad terminology, which I will agree with you on that, but stop trying to say he is taking things out of context. You are in fact calling him out as a liar. And now I am starting to get mad, boy.
And since I'm the one who wrote it, I'm pretty sure I knew what I meant. It definitely wasn't "evil intent."
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