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  #31  
Old 01-03-2014, 09:04 PM
VeridicalAngel VeridicalAngel is offline
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Re: Need Scripture about transfer

Didn't mean to start a scuffle amongst you all. Just trying to be obedient while trying to stay saved.
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  #32  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:15 PM
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missourimary missourimary is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Midwest
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Re: Need Scripture about transfer

So... I've wondered off and on for some time: what would happen if I cut my hair, put on pants and makeup and some jewelry, moved to another state and walked into a church where no one knows me and no one is connected to my formeer church. I pretend I know no one and nothing, 'pray through' and am baptized. Then I'd be dishonest, but I'd be accepted because I'm a new convert, right? Even if I 'backslid' and 'came back' in another state, it seems I'd be more likely to be allowed to attend in some churches than if I honestly said 'I'm moving here without my pastor's consent.' The churches I know who require a letter also believe a person MUST attend an Apostolic church to be saved. It just seems these two teachings are in conflict.
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  #33  
Old 01-03-2014, 11:31 PM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,574
Re: Need Scripture about transfer

Posted earlier about people coming in without a reference letter:

Quote:
And no one realizes they are wells without water until it's too late.
Well, there you go.

You expect everybody to come into
the building to be a tongue talking pentecostal?

Churches are for sinners to come in and to be saved
by the grace and compassion of our Lord Jesus Christ.
That's exactly why He went to the cross, for crying out loud.

Do you want your church just to be a "bless me" club for tongue talking
united pentecostals?

Forget about "letters"...I love it when the "unsaved" come in!
The more the better.
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  #34  
Old 01-03-2014, 11:32 PM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Posts: 2,574
Re: Need Scripture about transfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary View Post
So... I've wondered off and on for some time: what would happen if I cut my hair, put on pants and makeup and some jewelry, moved to another state and walked into a church where no one knows me and no one is connected to my formeer church. I pretend I know no one and nothing, 'pray through' and am baptized. Then I'd be dishonest, but I'd be accepted because I'm a new convert, right? Even if I 'backslid' and 'came back' in another state, it seems I'd be more likely to be allowed to attend in some churches than if I honestly said 'I'm moving here without my pastor's consent.' The churches I know who require a letter also believe a person MUST attend an Apostolic church to be saved. It just seems these two teachings are in conflict.
All legalism in my book.
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  #35  
Old 01-03-2014, 11:43 PM
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votivesoul votivesoul is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
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Re: Need Scripture about transfer

I admit it's been going on two years since I read it, so my memory is fuzzy. I must be remembering the word "guideline" and interpreted it as a code of ethics.

Thanks for clearing it up, n david. But according to what you posted, it doesn't look like an article required for continued licensing and fellowship.

So if a local assembly's by-laws require it, then they probably follow through. If not, then not.
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  #36  
Old 01-04-2014, 10:53 AM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Posts: 2,574
Re: Need Scripture about transfer

Instruction about what a "church" should
be like are in the Book of Acts.

Not in some instruction book written by men.
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  #37  
Old 01-05-2014, 11:08 AM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Need Scripture about transfer

Guess: Probably Vaughn.

Sounds like something that crowd would dream up among themselves.
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  #38  
Old 01-06-2014, 11:12 AM
Reader Reader is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 526
Re: Need Scripture about transfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
I found the information I posted under "Local Church Government," page 127 and 128 of the 2012 UPCI Manual. I didn't notice before, but now see that it states....
If it were only there, then one could say it wasn't a rule but merely a suggestion for church by-laws. But it is not.

Article 7, Section 7 & #33 states (Under the "General Constitution" under "Ministry"):

Quote:
33. No minister affiliated with us shall accept any individual recognized as a member from a church pastored by another United Pentecostal Church International minister without a letter of release or transfer. No minister affiliated with us shall refuse a letter of release or transfer to an individual recognized as a member desiring to withdraw from his or her assembly unless proven guilty of misconduct by confession or conviction prior to his or her request for transfer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Thanks. Wow...me either. And it seems rather insincere to demand that when technically we aren't MEMBERS of the UPCI unless we are ordained ministers.
If one is a member of an affiliated UPC church, they ARE indeed a member of the UPC & have been since their inception. The simply do not hold positions, nor can they vote, etc. Every prospective UPC minister is supposed to read this manual and if they did, they would stop falsely proclaiming that it is only licensed ministers who hold membership.

Under Article 2 titled "Membership" -
Quote:
Membership in the United Pentecostal Church International shall consist of all ministers and missionaries holding an accredited credential or license, and all members of local assemblies which are affiliated with us, and shall be called “Organization."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose View Post
We have been attending UPC churches for many years and have moved several times. None of our pastors offered or ever asked for a transfer letter! Granted we have been in our present church for 5 years. When did this letter or permission requirement begin? Curious.
Good question as it was NOT that way in the beginning, so it isn't an old relic from when communication wasn't as easy as today. It does not appear in Manuals from the 50s or as late as 1965. It does appear in the 1986 edition. So somewhere between '65 and '86 it was added.

Even licensed ministers need this letter if they change districts. (Article 7, Section 7)
Quote:
29. A certificate of transfer shall be issued by the District Secretary for a minister who is leaving his or her home district to establish residence in another district.
Quote:
Supposedly they "outlawed" beards and mustaches because of the hippie movement that died in the 70s.
To my knowledge, the facial hair has never been mentioned in the Manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
By the way, this isn't an article. Rather, it's under a section called ministerial ethics. It's not required for fellowship. It's merely recommended to help keep unity between ministers. ....But according to what you posted, it doesn't look like an article required for continued licensing and fellowship.
It is a requirement according to the UPCI. It's under Article 7, the section titled "Section 7. Obligations and Rules"

Some ministers abide by this rule and some do not. I have witnessed both. I have also witnessed tensions between two churches in WV when one pastor allowed a family to attend, who were from the nearby larger church, without the letter. That pastor wasn't happy they were not asked for the letter.
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  #39  
Old 01-06-2014, 12:07 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Need Scripture about transfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
I admit it's been going on two years since I read it, so my memory is fuzzy. I must be remembering the word "guideline" and interpreted it as a code of ethics.

Thanks for clearing it up, n david. But according to what you posted, it doesn't look like an article required for continued licensing and fellowship.

So if a local assembly's by-laws require it, then they probably follow through. If not, then not.
Right. At first I thought it was, but it's clearly labeled as a sample or guide, not as an actual organizational requirement.
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  #40  
Old 01-06-2014, 12:09 PM
Reader Reader is offline
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Re: Need Scripture about transfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
Right. At first I thought it was, but it's clearly labeled as a sample or guide, not as an actual organizational requirement.
This is incorrect. Please see my first post.
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