Opening of US Embassy in Jerusalem -Ceremony

[Carl]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Some leaders at ABI used to teach, and maybe still do (???) that the tribulation period is actually 14 years. Some UPCI higher-ups were allegedly called in a year or so after my wife finished up her Associate's. Goes back to an S.G. Norris doctrine, ABI's founder. It was quite controversial when my wife was there.

She wrote a paper refuting it, but the professor told her she had to rewrite it to make it look like she agreed with it "to show she could prove, in writing, that she understood" what has been taught to her.

Years ago they were saying 1986 was the start of the tribulation. So the 14 year period worked out to 2000 being the start of the millennium. But a lot of folks made that prediction. I have a copy of the timeline of prophecy from ABI dated 1973 which gives those dates. I too wonder if they still teach this.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Carl

Years ago they were saying 1986 was the start of the tribulation. So the 14 year period worked out to 2000 being the start of the millennium. But a lot of folks made that prediction. I have a copy of the timeline of prophecy from ABI dated 1973 which gives those dates. I too wonder if they still teach this.

As of about 2007 it was present. That's when my wife finished up her Associate's Degree in Theology and Christian Service.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Carl

Are they? Then why would they need a seven year period?

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Perhaps, the 7 year trib for the jews is the period wherein they'll obey Acts 2:38.

Originally Posted by Carl

Why can't they obey it now?

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Who said they're not?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

It actually looks like you are saying they're not.

First off, I was trying to be funny in my response to Amanah. I guess that was a fail...

Regarding the eschatology, I do not subscribe to dispensationalism. IMO, all the various schools of eschatology have inconsistencies in them.

I made a thread a while back showing the inconsistency I found in each of them and asked people to respond. The result was people harping on others' doctrine and ignoring the "holes" in their doctrine

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Then why are you making the above statement? If they can obey Acts 2:38 now, then what is the relevance to the trib and Jews? Also explain what is a Jew, and why are the still special to God outside the blood of Christ? Are converts to Judaism also in the same equation? How does one convert to Judaism? Does God honor two religions? Christianity and Rabbinical Judaism?

Now to this - your questions assume I subscribe to dispensationalism and believe that the jews are special outside of Christ. I do not. Hence, why I just ignored them.

In response to Carl's question - a dispensationalist would say that INDIVIDUAL jews are obeying Acts 2:38 today. (This was why I asked "who said they're not?"). However, in the trib, they, as a nation will obey it (as per Rom 11:25). Therefore, the trib serves as the period when Israel returns to God on a national scale.

Again, i want to reiterate, I do not subscribe to this. I am just responding to Carl's question from a dispensationalist viewpoint.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Perhaps, the 7 year trib for the jews is the period wherein they'll obey Acts 2:38.

sorry I missed your joke, can you bump the thread with your objects to eschatology viewpoints?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

sorry I missed your joke, can you bump the thread with your objects to eschatology viewpoints?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Now to this - your questions assume I subscribe to dispensationalism and believe that the jews are special outside of Christ. I do not. Hence, why I just ignored them.

In response to Carl's question - a dispensationalist would say that INDIVIDUAL jews are obeying Acts 2:38 today. (This was why I asked "who said they're not?"). However, in the trib, they, as a nation will obey it (as per Rom 11:25). Therefore, the trib serves as the period when Israel returns to God on a national scale.

Again, i want to reiterate, I do not subscribe to this. I am just responding to Carl's question from a dispensationalist viewpoint.

If they can obey Acts 2:38 now, then what is the relevance to the trib and Jews? Romans 11:25 is referring to the Judeans who would become believers. So all Israel being saved is only comprised of just believers. Are you saying that all Israel means every single modern Israeli at some point in time? Wouldn't that be the same as you saying that because God wants all men to be saved, and have knowledge of Him all men would in every epoch of time be saved 1 Timothy 2:4

But, that isn't the only thing I asked you, but I asked "what is a Jew, and why are the still special to God outside the blood of Christ?" This is actually what you are still referring to? Isn't it? One doesn't need to be a dispensationalist to even ascribe to the idea that modern Jews are still special to God outside the blood of Christ. I also asked you, "are converts to Judaism also in the same as Biblical converts of Israelism? If yes, then why yes, if no, then why no? Also, how does one convert to Judaism now, and how did they convert to Judaism then? But the most important question is, "does God honor two religions? Christianity and Rabbinical Judaism?" If so, why?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

First off, I was trying to be funny in my response to Amanah. I guess that was a fail...

Regarding the eschatology, I do not subscribe to dispensationalism. IMO, all the various schools of eschatology have inconsistencies in them.

I made a thread a while back showing the inconsistency I found in each of them and asked people to respond. The result was people harping on others' doctrine and ignoring the "holes" in their doctrine


Now to this - your questions assume I subscribe to dispensationalism and believe that the jews are special outside of Christ. I do not. Hence, why I just ignored them.

In response to Carl's question - a dispensationalist would say that INDIVIDUAL jews are obeying Acts 2:38 today. (This was why I asked "who said they're not?"). However, in the trib, they, as a nation will obey it (as per Rom 11:25). Therefore, the trib serves as the period when Israel returns to God on a national scale.

Again, i want to reiterate, I do not subscribe to this. I am just responding to Carl's question from a dispensationalist viewpoint.

Where is that thread?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I made a thread a while back showing the inconsistency I found in each of them and asked people to respond. The result was people harping on others' doctrine and ignoring the "holes" in their doctrine

I just re-read that thread. Your summary is less than accurate, I must say.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I just re-read that thread. Your summary is less than accurate, I must say.

TGBTG uses the term "you guys" a lot. Therefore TGBTG must be the guy, and able to spoon feed.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

If they can obey Acts 2:38 now, then what is the relevance to the trib and Jews? Romans 11:25 is referring to the Judeans who would become believers. So all Israel being saved is only comprised of just believers. Are you saying that all Israel means every single modern Israeli at some point in time? Wouldn't that be the same as you saying that because God wants all men to be saved, and have knowledge of Him all men would in every epoch of time be saved 1 Timothy 2:4

I never said i believe any of these things. I specifically said my response to Amanah was from a dispy's view point and meant to be funny.

And further repeated that I do not subscribe to dispy.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

But, that isn't the only thing I asked you, but I asked "what is a Jew, and why are the still special to God outside the blood of Christ?" This is actually what you are still referring to? Isn't it? One doesn't need to be a dispensationalist to even ascribe to the idea that modern Jews are still special to God outside the blood of Christ. I also asked you, "are converts to Judaism also in the same as Biblical converts of Israelism? If yes, then why yes, if no, then why no? Also, how does one convert to Judaism now, and how did they convert to Judaism then? But the most important question is, "does God honor two religions? Christianity and Rabbinical Judaism?" If so, why?

Again, you keep asking me questions about stuff I don't believe.

Anyway, fwiw -

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

what is a Jew,

Rom 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

and why are the still special to God outside the blood of Christ?"

Show me where I said this...

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

One doesn't need to be a dispensationalist to even ascribe to the idea that modern Jews are still special to God outside the blood of Christ.

Ok, not sure what you're getting at with this. I never said modern Jews are special to God outside the blood of Christ.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I also asked you, "are converts to Judaism also in the same as Biblical converts of Israelism? If yes, then why yes, if no, then why no?

I don't understand your question. Regardless, per bible, Judaism was done away with.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Also, how does one convert to Judaism now, and how did they convert to Judaism then?

There are different sects of Judaism today. They do not all convert the same way. I don't care for how they do their conversion. Don't see how that is pertinent to this discussion. Again, I do not believe Jews are special to God

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

But the most important question is, "does God honor two religions? Christianity and Rabbinical Judaism?" If so, why?

Wow...I can't believe you actually asked this. If you don't know my answer to this at this point. I don't know how else to spell it out.

Just in case, here is what I believe concerning Judaism:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=280

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...=51872&page=29