Jesus said, "And ALL things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." ~ Matthew 21:22
It would seem to me that when one is taking heed to and obeying the things which John said that they MUST do in order to have "confidence" that God will hear and answer their prayer (yea, even those where healing is requested), then God has obligated Himself to respond accordingly.
So again I feel compelled to say ~ ALL of the emphasis rests with the petitioner: 1. We MUST ask in prayer; 2. We MUST believe (i.e., possess the "confidence" that because we are living righteously He will "hear" and grant our petition), and then; 3. We MUST receive it.
In the absence of any of these three essentials then it can hardly be said that we possess the "confidence" that God will "hear" our petition and grant it.
Brother, I will respectfully, partially agree with your premise. I absolutely agree that all these things you have cited are very important to creating an environment in our lives that miracles and answered prayers may exist. However, it all is contingent upon God's will.
We must use the Biblical methods of dissecting Scripture that says, any doctrine or argument that we take hold of from Scripture, must be able to be taken through to it's logical end, as well as support it's antithesis.
The Antithesis of your assertion above is that if a person doesn't have their miracle, they are lacking in one of these above parts... therefore, like Benny Hinn and the "name it claim it crowd" says, if your not prospering and seeing your miracle, it's a deficit on your part.
That totally subtracts the huge factor of the Will of God in the whole mix. Take the story of the man lame from his mother's womb in Acts 3. From the indications of the Scripture, there is no greater faith mentioned here other than the man believing he might get some generosity from the Disciples... but he ended up with a miracle... because that was God's will at that time.
What about the story where the lame man was at the pool of Bethesda... it would appear that Jesus healed him in spite of his lack of faith. He was looking for someone to place him in the pool and didn't have the realization of who he was even talking to and the possibilities that stood right in front of him.
I know there is a great reward for our petitions, and our earnest seeking. The woman with the issue of blood is a great example of that. But we can never, ever, ever believe that the full work of God in our lives is handicapped by our ability to cross all the t's and dot all the i's and if we aren't healed, it's somehow our fault.
There are times that God's will is greater than our agenda or plan, and all he's told us to do is believe... not try to understand. Our job is just to trust Him, and all the rest is in His department... that's above my pay grade.
Brother, I will respectfully, partially agree with your premise. I absolutely agree that all these things you have cited are very important to creating an environment in our lives that miracles and answered prayers may exist. However, it all is contingent upon God's will.
We must use the Biblical methods of dissecting Scripture that says, any doctrine or argument that we take hold of from Scripture, must be able to be taken through to it's logical end, as well as support it's antithesis.
The Antithesis of your assertion above is that if a person doesn't have their miracle, they are lacking in one of these above parts... therefore, like Benny Hinn and the "name it claim it crowd" says, if your not prospering and seeing your miracle, it's a deficit on your part.
That totally subtracts the huge factor of the Will of God in the whole mix. Take the story of the man lame from his mother's womb in Acts 3. From the indications of the Scripture, there is no greater faith mentioned here other than the man believing he might get some generosity from the Disciples... but he ended up with a miracle... because that was God's will at that time.
What about the story where the lame man was at the pool of Bethesda... it would appear that Jesus healed him in spite of his lack of faith. He was looking for someone to place him in the pool and didn't have the realization of who he was even talking to and the possibilities that stood right in front of him.
I know there is a great reward for our petitions, and our earnest seeking. The woman with the issue of blood is a great example of that. But we can never, ever, ever believe that the full work of God in our lives is handicapped by our ability to cross all the t's and dot all the i's and if we aren't healed, it's somehow our fault.
There are times that God's will is greater than our agenda or plan, and all he's told us to do is believe... not try to understand. Our job is just to trust Him, and all the rest is in His department... that's above my pay grade.
To be fair, Lafon didn't really deny the "will of God" component. As I posted, he merely said there were additional requirements. Not only must God want to do what you ask Him to do, you must also be free of sin, before you ask. Even if God wants to heal your sick child, He will still let him die if you ask for the healing after having committed a sin.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Lafon, if I remember correctly from prior discussion, you believe it is always the will of God to be healed, except for the sickness which is unto death. Does that correctly state your position?
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
to do what you ask Him to do, you must also be free of sin, before you ask. Even if God wants to heal your sick child, He will still let him die if you ask for the healing after having committed a sin.
And is this your assertion as well? That we must be free from sin to have a miracle in our lives? I'm sorry, but I just don't see that in the Scriptures... and I'm about as tight on Holiness and living right as it comes, but I'll never believe that a person has to be "free from sin before they ask"... because the Scripture doesn't bare that out... especially because of the antithesis doctrine that it presents.
And is this your assertion as well? That we must be free from sin to have a miracle in our lives? I'm sorry, but I just don't see that in the Scriptures... and I'm about as tight on Holiness and living right as it comes, but I'll never believe that a person has to be "free from sin before they ask"... because the Scripture doesn't bare that out... especially because of the antithesis doctrine that it presents.
This is very far from my actual assertion (how I think things really work), but there is scriptural support for it. Lafon cited I John 3:22. I think there are others, but nothing pops into mind just now.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Well, I'll have to say I don't read that Scripture in I John quite as my brother does, and we will agree to disagree. I think to take the full context of the whole conversation that is going on in that Scripture, to say that one must be "free from sin, completely and totally" is proof texting a bit.
Don't get me wrong, the obedience, consecration, life, even consistency of the believer is important for presenting an environment for healings... however, it's not a guarantee. To me this are contributing factors, but the major one being the Will of God.
Well, I'll have to say I don't read that Scripture in I John quite as my brother does, and we will agree to disagree. I think to take the full context of the whole conversation that is going on in that Scripture, to say that one must be "free from sin, completely and totally" is proof texting a bit.
Don't get me wrong, the obedience, consecration, life, even consistency of the believer is important for presenting an environment for healings... however, it's not a guarantee. To me this are contributing factors, but the major one being the Will of God.
Maybe he means free from unforgiven sin. Get those sins washed away first, and then pray.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
The more you guys try to explain this to Timmy, the worse it gets. Good grief, now I'M starting to doubt God, and it's not from what Timmy says but from what the apologists are saying!! This is like Job's buddies showing up and trying to explain Job's problems. Elihu finally showed up and set things straight. Elihu!!?? We need you, can you jump in here?
__________________ Old Paths II is....not sharing an IP address with any other user. You can put the question about him being another poster to rest. He's just OPII. All by himself. He's not a fake, he's an original. ~The Mrs
I sort of have two responses, not necessarily answers... I still see healings, not to the degree we did growing up, but still do. Just saw a 5 year old that had coke bottle thick glasses, developmental issues, and braces on her legs healed in a sunday night service at our church a month ago. She no longer even looks like she has Downs or sometime of disfunction in her face anymore. She walks just fine, able to talk like any 5 year old should, and doesn't wear the glasses anymore. She's as healthy as can be.
From all of my missionary friends, it would seem that abroad there are just as many miracles and healings going on as ever. Maybe the difference in the US has to do with our lack of true hunger for the Lord. We've lost our desperation... He's usually our last or next to last alternative for healing... not our only. The difference in the modern day church in lack of power, miracles, signs, wonders, converts, true religion that is undefiled, etc... all has to do with us, and how we've changed.....
I would love to see the doctor's statement after seeing the little girl you mention in this post.
My wife, is the director of a special needs day program, and would love to know that Downs had been healed. We have several Downs in our program, God is very evidently present at Coventry, but we have not seen a Downs healed. www.coventryreserve.org
We believe God will heal and restore all special needs, this life is so very short, they will all be complete and whole. Adversity in this life works as fire in the lives of those close to it, this life is the course each of us must walk.
God is not going to correct all wrongs, nor heal all sickness in this world, so to make healing here our only focus is misguided.
He could correct everything in this world NOW, but that is not the purpose of this life. Nor has He been interrupted, nor hindered from its (His purpose) accomplishment, no matter what moves we in our "freewill" do, He like the master chess player simply makes His next move to bring us all to "checkmate" with Him.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
The more you guys try to explain this to Timmy, the worse it gets. Good grief, now I'M starting to doubt God, and it's not from what Timmy says but from what the apologists are saying!! This is like Job's buddies showing up and trying to explain Job's problems. Elihu finally showed up and set things straight. Elihu!!?? We need you, can you jump in here?
OP2 taking Timmy's side (kinda)?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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