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  #11  
Old 08-23-2019, 07:25 PM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
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Re: perspective

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Actually, that is not what Daniel 12 meant by knowledge increasing in last days. It meant understand what the visions he saw would be increased in the last days. And John saw the Revelation and was told to not seal it because the time was at hand. IOW, he was in the last days. Hebrews 1:1-2 says the last days were the time Hebrews was written in the first century. Daniel was not allowed to know so it was sealed. It was unsealed in John's day. It has nothing really to do with scientific knowledge.
could i ask what the source of your statement is on what daniel meant? also, don't you find it somewhat coincidental that knowledge (science, medicine, micro and macro) has skyrocketed in just the last 200 years? and finally, if, as you propose, john was in the last days some 2,000 years ago, then where does that put us?
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2019, 08:23 PM
JamesGlen JamesGlen is offline
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Re: perspective

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Actually, that is not what Daniel 12 meant by knowledge increasing in last days. It meant understand what the visions he saw would be increased in the last days. And John saw the Revelation and was told to not seal it because the time was at hand. IOW, he was in the last days. Hebrews 1:1-2 says the last days were the time Hebrews was written in the first century. Daniel was not allowed to know so it was sealed. It was unsealed in John's day. It has nothing really to do with scientific knowledge.
I would only add, also preceding its writ by about 65 years...
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  #13  
Old 08-24-2019, 04:29 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: perspective

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Originally Posted by phareztamar View Post
...knowledge (science, medicine, micro and macro) has skyrocketed in just the last 200 years?
You actually believe that?

There have been increases in SOME technical areas, but overall the human species is dumber than a box of rocks these days.
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  #14  
Old 08-24-2019, 05:37 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: perspective

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
You actually believe that?

There have been increases in SOME technical areas, but overall the human species is dumber than a box of rocks these days.
This only comes from reading ancient writings. Just recently they found that leeches applied to the human body were extremely beneficial. Not that I personally would attach those critters to me. But, the ancients understood far more than we. We with our technology mistake that knowledge for wisdom in other areas. I just had a preacher tell me that the ancients beieved that all stars moved around aimlessly. Hence the term “wandering stars”. I told him his information is incorrect. Since ancient people were charting courses with star fixed positions for ever. The New Testament backs this up. For one group to be “wandering stars. The other group that could be trusted must be a fixed position.
Simple. There is a whole lot ancients had on the go that we have long forgotten.
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:57 AM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
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Re: perspective

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
You actually believe that?

There have been increases in SOME technical areas, but overall the human species is dumber than a box of rocks these days.
yes, I actually believe that. and wow...just wow.
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  #16  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:59 AM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
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Re: perspective

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
This only comes from reading ancient writings. Just recently they found that leeches applied to the human body were extremely beneficial. Not that I personally would attach those critters to me. But, the ancients understood far more than we. We with our technology mistake that knowledge for wisdom in other areas. I just had a preacher tell me that the ancients beieved that all stars moved around aimlessly. Hence the term “wandering stars”. I told him his information is incorrect. Since ancient people were charting courses with star fixed positions for ever. The New Testament backs this up. For one group to be “wandering stars. The other group that could be trusted must be a fixed position.
Simple. There is a whole lot ancients had on the go that we have long forgotten.
wow.
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2019, 11:34 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: perspective

What motivates the wow?
Did I make incorrect statements? I was primarily posting in accordence with Esaias. But, we have found a few things with research. The knowledge the ancients had concerning architecture, medicine, astronomy. People tend to believe that ancient people would bow to the flick of a Zippo lighter. Because we assume we are far more advance. Yet, we would be shocked to find they had Zippos of their own. Much better ones I might add.
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2019, 08:12 PM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
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Re: perspective

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
What motivates the wow?
Did I make incorrect statements? I was primarily posting in accordence with Esaias. But, we have found a few things with research. The knowledge the ancients had concerning architecture, medicine, astronomy. People tend to believe that ancient people would bow to the flick of a Zippo lighter. Because we assume we are far more advance. Yet, we would be shocked to find they had Zippos of their own. Much better ones I might add.
well, elder, the wow comes from not really knowing what to say. the positions that you and esaias...both brilliant men in your own right...take on this topic leave me amazed. you stated that we have found a few things with research. the knowledge the ancients had concerning architecture, medicine, and astronomy. esaias concedes there have been increases in SOME technical areas. it was never my intent to denigrate the accomplishments of the ancients. but their knowledge compared to where humanity has progressed to today is like comparing a dandilion to a giant redwood. not just in architecture, medicine and astronomy, , but in every scientific discipline. in fact there really is no comparison. if you won't allow how far we've come from leeches, zippo lighters and wandering stars, then there really is no point in discussing the topic any further. i apologize if the wow offended you. it was all i could come up with.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:24 PM
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Re: perspective

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Originally Posted by phareztamar View Post
well, elder, the wow comes from not really knowing what to say. the positions that you and esaias...both brilliant men in your own right...take on this topic leave me amazed. you stated that we have found a few things with research. the knowledge the ancients had concerning architecture, medicine, and astronomy. esaias concedes there have been increases in SOME technical areas. it was never my intent to denigrate the accomplishments of the ancients. but their knowledge compared to where humanity has progressed to today is like comparing a dandilion to a giant redwood. not just in architecture, medicine and astronomy, , but in every scientific discipline. in fact there really is no comparison. if you won't allow how far we've come from leeches, zippo lighters and wandering stars, then there really is no point in discussing the topic any further. i apologize if the wow offended you. it was all i could come up with.
If you think of us as "brilliant", shouldn't that cause you to pause and consider what exactly it is we are saying? Instead of just "wow, can't believe you guys turned out to be this incredibly dumb"? Just saying.

I have a book of collected broadsides from the colonial era. Broadsides and newspaper articles. Including one written by a New York farmer. A whole lot of college grads today would have trouble understanding this farmer's letter to the editor, because it would just be way above their pay grade and comprehension.

In the middle ages, boys went to University at around 13-15 and became appointed ambassadors to foreign countries at 16-18. Somewhere online is a standard 19th century 8th grade test that most modern college students would fail.

Ancient Greeks figured out the earth was a sphere by mere observation and calculation. Today people can't figure out which bathroom to use.

300 years ago an average persons house (hut) could last for generations. Nowadays houses fall apart within 40 years.

The ancients did more with less, and we do less with "more". How in the world is that "progress"?
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2019, 11:32 PM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
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Re: perspective

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
If you think of us as "brilliant", shouldn't that cause you to pause and consider what exactly it is we are saying? Instead of just "wow, can't believe you guys turned out to be this incredibly dumb"? Just saying.

I have a book of collected broadsides from the colonial era. Broadsides and newspaper articles. Including one written by a New York farmer. A whole lot of college grads today would have trouble understanding this farmer's letter to the editor, because it would just be way above their pay grade and comprehension.

In the middle ages, boys went to University at around 13-15 and became appointed ambassadors to foreign countries at 16-18. Somewhere online is a standard 19th century 8th grade test that most modern college students would fail.

Ancient Greeks figured out the earth was a sphere by mere observation and calculation. Today people can't figure out which bathroom to use.

300 years ago an average persons house (hut) could last for generations. Nowadays houses fall apart within 40 years.

The ancients did more with less, and we do less with "more". How in the world is that "progress"?
Your inflection of "can't believe you guys turned out to be this incredibly dumb" was unwarranted. I simply said wow and explained why. were you led by the Spirit to throw that out there?

So the book you have on collected broadsides from the colonial era. Is it etched onto clay tablets? Written on a papyrus of animal skin? Or is it written on paper manufactured at an industrial paper mill?

The colonial era New York farmer. What did he farm with? Was it a JCB 8250 Fastrac? A John Deere 956 ORT tractor? How many acres was he farming? 200? 1,000? 2,000? What type of irrigation was he using? A pivot? Poly-piping?

The middle age boys who went to University around 13-15. How did they get to school? Car? Bus? Motorcycle? Was 13-15 years old the norm for going to University, or an exception to the norm? What type of lighting and bathroom facilities did University offer them? Was there a cafeteria for lunch?

The ancient Greeks who calculated that the Earth was an orb. Did they also calculate the rotation speed of the earth's solid inner core? It's material make-up? The rotation speed (in the opposite direction) of the earth's liquid outer core? Did they elaborate on the Earth's magnetic field? The magnetosphere or the bow shock when hit by super-sonic solar wind?

The average person's "hut" 300 years ago. Did they have central heating and air? Fire alarms? A sewage system? How about lighting and data?

Just saying.
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