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  #21  
Old 08-22-2019, 06:58 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: The Present reign of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Looks like a lot of folks did not understand what sister Amanah posted.

The tl;dr version: Jesus is CHRIST, which means reigning son of God. The adversaries of God have been defeated by Him and it is our duty to manifest that WORD in the here and now. As we believe and pray "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN" we are to expect that our prayer is heard and that we receive the things we ask for. Thus, we are to expect and work for Christ's kingdom and dominion to increase throughout every sphere of every person's life, in every nation, until the kingdom has completely filled the whole earth - as prophecied in Daniel 2.
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  #22  
Old 08-22-2019, 08:05 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Present reign of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Let’s forget about accusations and focus on the technicalities in here. If the Apostles said “watch out with Satan” and somebody later said “no worries Satan is bound”, isn’t that a different teaching than the Apostles?

Doesn’t the Bible say that Satan is bound after the Coming of the Lord in the clouds? If you say that Satan was bound, then you are saying that the Coming of the Lord in the clouds already happened, and therefore, the resurrection already happened; which is, Originalist, a different Gospel. The Apostles preached the resurrection from the dead in the future, and you would be saying that the resurrection from the dead was in the past.
The binding of satan in Revelation 20 is a specific event occurring immediately after the destruction of the two beasts. It is not the same binding which Jesus enforced during His earthly ministry. Revelation 20 refers to an event concerning the spirit that controls the beast and false prophet, it is SIGNIFIED by (represented by the symbolism of) a great red dragon being chained and tossed into the abyss and locked away. The "binding" in that vision is a representation of a particular event or occurrence.

In the Gospels, Jesus is seen "spoiling" the "devil" of his "goods". This is metaphorical language describing Jesus healing and delivering people from sickness, demonic possession, infirmities, etc. The power of satan is shown to be broken, because the afflicting sicknesses cannot withstand Christ's authority and power to heal. That is to say, sickness and disease and demonisation are weak and powerless and must submit to Christ.

In the Epistles Christ is said to have spoiled principalities and powers, triumphing openly over them. This is a reference to Him leading captives free from bondage to the antichristian secular and religious powers, and the triumph (victory parade) occurred at His resurrection which proved they (the powers and principalities) were impotent.


So, Christ is certainly reigning now, sickness, disease, and demonisation are bound and spoiled by Him, earthly or worldly "powers that be" are impotent against Him, people are freed from their power to become citizens of God's kingdom.

Just as we were saved, are being saved, and shall be saved, so too the devil was defeated, is being defeated now, and shall be defeated.
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Last edited by Esaias; 08-22-2019 at 09:54 PM.
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  #23  
Old 08-22-2019, 09:43 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: The Present reign of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The binding of satan in Revelation 19 is a specific event occurring immediately after the destruction of the two beasts. It is not the same binding which Jesus enforced during His earthly ministry. Revelation 19 refers to an event concerning the spirit that controls the beast and false prophet, it is SIGNIFIED by (represented by the symbolism of) a great red dragon being chained and tossed into the abyss and locked away. The "binding" in that vision is a representation of a particular event or occurrence.

In the Gospels, Jesus is seen "spoiling" the "devil" of his "goods". This is metaphorical language describing Jesus healing and delivering people from sickness, demonic possession, infirmities, etc. The power of satan is shown to be broken, because the afflicting sicknesses cannot withstand Christ's authority and power to heal. That is to say, sickness and disease and demonisation are weak and powerless and must submit to Christ.

In the Epistles Christ is said to have spoiled principalities and powers, triumphing openly over them. This is a reference to Him leading captives free from bondage to the antichristian secular and religious powers, and the triumph (victory parade) occurred at His resurrection which proved they (the powers and principalities) were impotent.


So, Christ is certainly reigning now, sickness, disease, and demonisation are bound and spoiled by Him, earthly or worldly "powers that be" are impotent against Him, people are freed from their power to become citizens of God's kingdom.

Just as we were saved, are being saved, and shall be saved, so too the devil was defeated, is being defeated now, and shall be defeated.

That makes sense to me. If you define bound in that sense then we are all good. I wasn't cleared that the quote Amanah posted was referring to "binding" in the sense of "defeated, and unable to act upon the saved ones" and not in the sense of "not being able to act upon those that don't believe the Gospel".
I've been dealing with preterists lately making some close ones stray from the truth. I may be seen hints of that hope-stealing doctrine everywhere .

Last edited by coksiw; 08-22-2019 at 09:55 PM.
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  #24  
Old 08-22-2019, 09:53 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Present reign of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
That makes sense to me. If you define bound in that sense then we are all good. I wasn't cleared that the quote Amanah posted was referring to "binding" in the sense of "defeated, and unable to act upon the saved ones" and not in the sense of "not being able to act upon those that don't believe the Gospel".
I've been dealing with preterists lately making some close ones stray from the truth. I may be seen hints of that hope-stilling doctrine everywhere .
1. The quote in the original post is apparently from an historicist amillennial view. I am more of an historicist premillennial. So I don"'t necessarily agree the Rev 20 binding of satan is an ancient, past event. However, the main point of the article is that modern prophecy pundits teach a defeatist denial of Christ's present reign and His triumph over His enemies.

2. Neither I nor, if I'm not mistaken sister Amanah, are preterists. Neither is the author of the quoted article.
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  #25  
Old 08-22-2019, 10:51 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: The Present reign of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
1. The quote in the original post is apparently from an historicist amillennial view..
If the article is from an amillennial author then I was right then that the article is referring to the binding of Satan at the beginning of the millennium, which puts Satan out of the picture and stops his influence on the world. That was my original perception. The only thing I didn't get was that amillennials believe that the Second Coming and Resurrection is still a future event.
Well, still not the full truth, but not as terrible as Preterists.
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  #26  
Old 08-23-2019, 01:52 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: The Present reign of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
1. The quote in the original post is apparently from an historicist amillennial view. I am more of an historicist premillennial. So I don"'t necessarily agree the Rev 20 binding of satan is an ancient, past event. However, the main point of the article is that modern prophecy pundits teach a defeatist denial of Christ's present reign and His triumph over His enemies.

2. Neither I nor, if I'm not mistaken sister Amanah, are preterists. Neither is the author of the quoted article.
Thank you Brother Esaias for clarifications. you have said correctly that I am not a preterist, but am looking forward to the Second Coming of Jesus.
I am a student of Eschatology with much still to learn.
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  #27  
Old 08-23-2019, 06:06 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post

So when Jesus said that, could you please see the context and tell me where it indicates that it was about an actual event where Satan was bound for good?

This is what destroying the devil means, see the verse right before:

[Col 2:14-15 NASB] 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

And this:

[Mar 16:17 NASB] 17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

[1Jo 5:18 NASB] 18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

And many more.
right. It does not mean DESTROY as people think at face value. Same with bind.

Quote:
Is there any verse in the Bible that says that at the present time before the coming of the Lord, Satan is bound in a sense of not being able to act?
I never said he is not able to act because of the bondage. It means it restricts activity. Think of a dog in a chain.


Quote:
And how is he bound and also have a throne somewhere?

[Rev 2:13 NASB] 13 'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

How is he bound and the Apostle attributes works to him?
I never said he cannot work. The bondage in Revelation 20 is only talking about keeping the devil from deceiving the nations and gathering them to come against the church. Never has the devil used all nations to gather against the church. But that will Happen in the future when he is loosed for a season.

Quote:
[2Co 2:11 NASB] 11 so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.

Do you think he is ruling from a prison? Mocking God? Can you teach that thru the Bible?
You missed what I said.
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Last edited by mfblume; 08-23-2019 at 06:13 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-23-2019, 06:15 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post

That makes sense to me. If you define bound in that sense then we are all good. I wasn't cleared that the quote Amanah posted was referring to "binding" in the sense of "defeated, and unable to act upon the saved ones" and not in the sense of "not being able to act upon those that don't believe the Gospel".
I've been dealing with preterists lately making some close ones stray from the truth. I may be seen hints of that hope-stealing doctrine everywhere .
I am closer to partial preterist. But more technically kingdom eschatologist. The resurrection is future as is the second coming. But Jesus rules now.
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  #29  
Old 08-23-2019, 06:48 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is online now
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Re: The Present reign of Jesus Christ

I cant remember a Christian who ever said that Jesus is not ruling now. Its a matter of to what degree he allows others to have temporary dominion. He can do anything he pleases at any time.
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  #30  
Old 08-23-2019, 09:20 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I cant remember a Christian who ever said that Jesus is not ruling now. Its a matter of to what degree he allows others to have temporary dominion. He can do anything he pleases at any time.
I think it matters to what degree he reigns. And if he rules over everything he will ever rule over or not. Jesus says all power was given to him in heaven and earth. So there can't be anything he is not yet ruling over, and there can't be a throne he does not yet sit on. He's on the throne of David now since he's at the right hand positron of power. There are those who think he's not yet on that throne.
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