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Old 05-16-2018, 06:42 AM
TakingDominion TakingDominion is offline
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Holiness Standards

I've been thinking and studying alot lately on these standards. My church is probably considered "ultra-con" by most on here, and I'd like to pick your brains regarding church history. When did our standards start being preached (and don't say in the book of Acts)? Who started the holiness movement in the UPCI? Where did it originate from?

Just to be clear, when I refer to standards I'm talking about no cut hair on women, no pants on women, no makeup, no jewelry, sleave lengths, ect ECT.

Thank you in advance.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:11 AM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
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Re: Holiness Standards

There was a holiness movement way before the UPCI but they were trinitarians.
As far as the uncut hair I wont say the book of acts but i will say the book of Corinthians.
If you take a look back into secular history about the pants you will rarely find women in them before the war effort of WW1 and WW2 because the women were working in factories and such, before this it was never excepted in society or the churches. however the church hasn't let go of its conviction against it thankfully.

makeup, its difficult to answer without referring to the scripture but the seductive women of the scriptures wore makeup to beautify their appearance to seduce men into prostitution fornication. Its all about making the flesh more appealing to the opposite sex.

many of the early UPCI folks came from holiness churches and didn't lose the holiness standards "because they were right".

Jewelry not sure when the modern church started preaching against it but the are scriptural references that teach against it.

sleeve lengths, too many views to even start. I only have my opinion.

probably not what your looking for but Its been a while since Iv'e read early pentecostal history.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:24 AM
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Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Holiness Standards

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Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
There was a holiness movement way before the UPCI but they were trinitarians.
I believe we got our holiness standards from the Trinitarian Wesleyans, if memory serves me correctly. Is this right?
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:36 AM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
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Re: Holiness Standards

My great grandfather was a Methodist preacher before 1900. He then joined the AOG after the Holy Ghost outpouring in Topeka. He then was kicked out of the AOG, because of his adoption of the Mighty God in Jesus!
I never knew him, as he was dead before I was born, however, my grandfather, who was also a minister, said that "most" religions were holiness when he was a boy.
The main holiness issue when he started preaching was "bobbed" hair.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:57 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Holiness Standards

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1 Thessalonians 4:18 - the trump sounds the dead in Christ are raised.
1 Corinthians 15:52- we are raised and changed.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 - the wicked one is destroyed as Jesus returns.
Revelation 20:5- this is the first resurrection.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:06 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Holiness Standards

The Holiness movement involves a set of beliefs and practices which emerged from 19th-century Methodism. A number of Evangelical Christian denominations, parachurch organizations, and movements emphasize those beliefs as central doctrine. The movement is Wesleyan-Arminian in theology,[1] and is defined by its emphasis on John Wesley's doctrine of a second work of grace leading to Christian perfection. As of 2015 Holiness-movement churches had an estimated 12 million adherents.[2]

Holiness adherents believe that the "second work of grace" (or "second blessing") refers to a personal experience subsequent to regeneration, commonly called "salvation," in which the believer is cleansed of the tendency to commit sin. This experience of "entire sanctification" enables the believer to live a holy life, and ideally, to live entirely without willful sin.

Holiness groups believe the moral aspects of the law of God are pertinent for today, and so expect their adherents to obey behavioral rules—for example, many groups have statements prohibiting the consumption of alcohol, participation in any form of gambling, and entertainments such as dancing and movie-going.[3] This position does attract opposition from certain evangelicals, who charge that such an attitude refutes or slights Reformation (particularly Calvinist) teachings that the effects of original sin remain even in the most faithful of souls.

Though it became a multi-denominational movement over time and was furthered by the Second Great Awakening which energized churches of all stripes, the Holiness movement has its roots in Wesleyanism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiness_movement
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1 Thessalonians 4:18 - the trump sounds the dead in Christ are raised.
1 Corinthians 15:52- we are raised and changed.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 - the wicked one is destroyed as Jesus returns.
Revelation 20:5- this is the first resurrection.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:47 AM
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Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Holiness Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
The Holiness movement involves a set of beliefs and practices which emerged from 19th-century Methodism. A number of Evangelical Christian denominations, parachurch organizations, and movements emphasize those beliefs as central doctrine. The movement is Wesleyan-Arminian in theology,[1] and is defined by its emphasis on John Wesley's doctrine of a second work of grace leading to Christian perfection. As of 2015 Holiness-movement churches had an estimated 12 million adherents.[2]

Holiness adherents believe that the "second work of grace" (or "second blessing") refers to a personal experience subsequent to regeneration, commonly called "salvation," in which the believer is cleansed of the tendency to commit sin. This experience of "entire sanctification" enables the believer to live a holy life, and ideally, to live entirely without willful sin.

Holiness groups believe the moral aspects of the law of God are pertinent for today, and so expect their adherents to obey behavioral rules—for example, many groups have statements prohibiting the consumption of alcohol, participation in any form of gambling, and entertainments such as dancing and movie-going.[3] This position does attract opposition from certain evangelicals, who charge that such an attitude refutes or slights Reformation (particularly Calvinist) teachings that the effects of original sin remain even in the most faithful of souls.

Though it became a multi-denominational movement over time and was furthered by the Second Great Awakening which energized churches of all stripes, the Holiness movement has its roots in Wesleyanism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiness_movement
Good information.

True holiness begins with being honest with ourselves. Are we truly "sinless"? Does the inclination or inherent tendency to commit sin remain? Are there sinful things that we still find alluring?

If so, ontologically speaking, sin remains in us... even if not acted upon.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:03 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Holiness Standards

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Good information.

True holiness begins with being honest with ourselves. Are we truly "sinless"? Does the inclination or inherent tendency to commit sin remain? Are there sinful things that we still find alluring?

If so, ontologically speaking, sin remains in us... even if not acted upon.
I don't think that sin remains in us, the new birth cleanses us from sin, but if we do sin we have an advocate with the Father:

Quote:
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
__________________
1 Thessalonians 4:18 - the trump sounds the dead in Christ are raised.
1 Corinthians 15:52- we are raised and changed.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 - the wicked one is destroyed as Jesus returns.
Revelation 20:5- this is the first resurrection.
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  #9  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:19 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is online now
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Re: Holiness Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Good information.

True holiness begins with being honest with ourselves. Are we truly "sinless"? Does the inclination or inherent tendency to commit sin remain? Are there sinful things that we still find alluring?

If so, ontologically speaking, sin remains in us... even if not acted upon.
This is a tough subject. The challenge with holiness is that in every case it should be founded from within. The challenge is that man looks on the outward appearance while God looks on the heart. When we talk about holiness standards we almost always talk about things that are easily visible from the outward appearance; bobbed hair, make-up, sleeve length, etc.. All are discerned by physical appearance. Typically none of these require the gift of spiritual discernment.

I am in the camp that believes that holiness on the inside will manifest itself on the outside. I am also a believer that the spirit of the Pharisees will manifest if we become excessively legalistic. Where legalism is allowed to run rampant, hypocrisy (the leaven of the Pharisees) is certain to manifest itself IMHO.

Paul taught extensively on this subject, it is not cut and dried. His opinion was that when Moses was read (the law, or legalism), that the Spirit was not
allowed to flourish. However when the hearts of the saints turned to God, legalism would suffer. It is a matter of balance, IMO. I do believe that Apostolics in general, and UPCI in particular have become more conservative in regards to dress and jewelry in my lifetime, but this may just be from my vantage-point.

Aquila. I have to differ with you on temptation automatically leading to sin. Jesus was tempted in all ways such as we are, yet He was without sin. This says to me that it is possible to be tempted and not sin.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:30 PM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
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Re: Holiness Standards

True holiness begins with being honest with ourselves. Are we truly "sinless"? Does the inclination or inherent tendency to commit sin remain? Are there sinful things that we still find alluring?

If so, ontologically speaking, sin remains in us... even if not acted upon.

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Im not so sure about this. Here is why. If the temptation is sin then one can say that Jesus sinned because Jesus was temped and we know that is not the case. If we say the things Jesus was temped with was not alluring or pleasing to his flesh them one could say he was never actually tempted. but we know he was tempted in all points like we are yet without sin.
The point is that temptation alone is not sin. but When lust is conceived, it bringeth forth sin. James1:15

I sure hope people dont believe every time they are tempted that they are sinning. thats leads to a life of condemnation.
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