Family Issue:

[Aquila]

Okay, I'm a bit upset. My ex-wife allows our 9 year old son to wander the neighborhood unsupervised with his friends ranging from younger than 9 to 11. She's really into this "give him freedom to make mistakes thing". I'm leery about it. At my home, my son is nearly always supervised and limits are placed on where he can go, when, and with whom. So, naturally, he isn't always very thrilled with coming over to my house when he can run around freely without any adults supervising him at her house.

Well, she sent me a message via Facebook this morning. Please share your thoughts. I also would appreciate your prayers. Here it is....

10:02am

Her: Hey there, got a sec?

Me: Sure.

Her: So, Noah and a couple of the neighborhood boys got ahold of a couple of cans of spray paint Monday night and made a mess of a bunch of things in the alley on mom's garage, the neighbor's fence, our garage, and a couple of other places.
To compound things, when I asked Noah about it he lied and said he didn't do it, even though he came home covered in spray paint.
So... little dude is on lock down for a while. He's lost most of his game and youtube priviledges, he's grounded from playing with his friends, he can't play with his nerf gun, etc.
He lied to me about it, and Ken, Isaiah's mom (Isaiah is the one who finally told the truth), and even the police officer that Ken called out to investigate.
Jesse is going to help him scrub the paint off where he can.
I wanted to let you know so that his consequences carry over to your place - no games, etc.

Me: Any legal repercussions? Vandalism, etc.?

Her: No, thankfully. Although there's been a lot of tagging in the neighborhood lately and I'm concerned that they're going to come knocking on my door now if something else gets damaged.

Me: Ouch.

Her: (Part of the reason he's grounded from being out of our sight)

Me: Noah's a good kid. In all honesty, some of his friends worry me.

Her: He does have some Netflix privileges still, mainly because I have to work and he'd drive me crazy without something to keep him occupied.
He is a good kid. The other kids are too, for the most part. I think they just got carried away - we all do stupid ........ at that age. The big deal for me is that he didn't fess up. I know why - he was afraid of getting in trouble - but I explained to him that because he lied it's now so much worse.

Me: Where were the parents of these kids while this was happening?

Her: If he told the truth he could fix it.
We all thought they were just in the alley playing like they always do.
Part of having the freedom is having the freedom to make mistakes, ya know?

Me: Okay, I'll be sure to carry over the restrictions.

Her: He mentioned to me when I told him that I was letting you know that he was afraid you'd lock him in his room and not feed him. That sounded to me like an exaggeration, but I wanted to make sure that wasn't what you had in mind.

Me: Lol I'd not do that. Lol

Her: I didn't think so.

Me: So, no games or media?

Her: Right. His phone is on total lockdown - he should only be able to make calls and send messages and a few other things.

Me: We rarely let them outside without supervision, so we'll keep that going.
Who's property got damaged?

Her: Like I said, I've given him netflix to give him something to keep him occupied. And I've always told him that family time is always free - he'll never have board games or doing stuff with mom taken away from him.
Mine, Mom's, Mandy's (Max's mom), and Mom & Ken's next door neighbor.

Me: Ouch.

Her: And, technically, the City's... there are a couple of orange city barrels out there that they got.
They're also losing the basketball net... Ken is taking it down.

Me: I know you realize you could have had some serious liability.
Did you explain that to Noah?

Her: Oh yeah, in spades.
I made him cry. I felt like sh**, but I think he needed it.

Me: Crying can be good, sometimes.
What color was it?

Her: White and like a teal green.
He's going to be feeling the pain of the consequences for a while. We are getting the PS4 this weekend, and he has a $75 gift code that he can't use.
He was pretty upset about his nerf gun being off limits too

Me: I don't know the law that well, could Noah have been charged with destruction of property or vandalism?

Her: Probably. The cop didn't seem too concerned though.
Which was a frustration in and of itself. The cop was pretty laid back about it. I wanted him to scare the bejeezus out of Noah so he'd get the picture. LOL

Me: I'd have had the cop cuff him and put him in the cruiser to sweat a little.
Lol

Her: Well, at the time we talked to the cop, the truth hadn't come out from Isaiah yet. But Noah had spray paint all over his legs, and I knew he had something to do with it but he wasn't budging on his story that it wasn't him.

Me: I know he's young. I did dumb things like this at his age. Started stealing out of yard with the Hutch***** boys and the Vander*****. I could have had a record before 12, easy.
We even vandalized a few cars.

Her: Yep.

Me: John Sp**** set a fire to cover up a break-in and was arrested for arson. Tim ******* was arrested for raping a neighbor girl. I think both were between 13 and 14 years old.
All out running the neighborhood, unsupervised.
I don't think Noah would be that bad....
But all it takes is the wrong friends to get Noah involved with something that could be very bad.

Her: This sort of feels like a criticism of the freedom I let him have... am I reading this wrong?

Me: These kinds of things scare me a lot sometimes. I was lucky.
I don't mean to seem critical. Just worried. I was a little boy running around with friends at one time. Those times were when we did things that could have gotten us locked up, charged, etc. Those were also the times we were introduced to drugs. I just worry because of personal experience.
The drugs scared me. Stealing and vandalism didn't for some reason.
Sean **** made me the look out when they got high off paint, glue, and eventually pot, and then acid (microdots).
We just have one chance at this. It worries me. That's all.
Then, if course, there's, Billy (my brother who was killed in a hit and run at 7).
All happened outside of the loving supervision of a parent. Freedom is important. But it can also be deadly. Sometimes it's hard to find the balance.
I'm just a dad.
I worry. And it will get worse as he gets older.

Her: There are risks, always. There are risks in going for a ride in the car. Part of adulting is understanding what the risks truly are and not letting them overpower what's best for a kid's learning and development. I'm not upset that he made the mistake of spray painting stuff. I want him to make those kinds of mistakes, now, where I can correct them and show him the consequences.

Me: They used to get high under the tracks on Linden Ave.

Her: You have benefited from the mistakes you made. But we can't just talk those lessons to Noah, he's got to know them.

Me: It could have been worse.
There are some things I wish my mom had kept me from. The night John set the fire....my mom said I couldn't go. I really didn't want to because John was with Neil, and he had beat me up a couple times and would take my bike and ride it, me begging for him to give it back. I'd have been implicated in the arson, had I gone.
I was 13.
But had mom not cared, I'd have gone for the pressure.
Teal green??? Yuck.
Billy died crossing Drummer to meet older kids on the way to Bomburger park. Mom was in the shower, told him he could go, but be careful.
That fast. It was over.
I just worry.
I'll enforce your restrictions. I'm glad it was only painting a few things. Lol
I'm glad no serious trouble came out of it.

Her: Yeah, I think it's a good lesson

Me: Me too.
I'll talk with him. But I won't lay into him. Sounds like you already gave him the riot act.

Her: It was a calm and measured riot act - from me, then Jesse, then my mom came over.

Me: Poor guy, probably scared out of his mind.

Her: It may have been calm but I think he would have rather I yelled and gone crazy.

Me: Calm can really affect him. He steels himself against crazy.
Calm also sends the message more clearly.
Thanks for giving me the heads up.

Her: Yeah, of course!

Am I being too protective? Is she being too disengaged as a parent? What are some of your thoughts on the above?

I need some food for thought as I ponder this.

Sincerely,

A Loving Father

[Aquila]

Oh.... I took out most last names with asterisks to be respectful of the privacy of my childhood friends.

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Okay, I'm a bit upset. My ex-wife allows our 9 year old son to wander the neighborhood unsupervised with his friends ranging from younger than 9 to 11. She's really into this "give him freedom to make mistakes thing". I'm leery about it. At my home, my son is nearly always supervised and limits are placed on where he can go, when, and with whom. So, naturally, he isn't always very thrilled with coming over to my house when he can run around freely without any adults supervising him at her house.

Well, she sent me a message via Facebook this morning. Please share your thoughts. I also would appreciate your prayers. Here it is....

10:02am

Her: Hey there, got a sec?

Me: Sure.

Her: So, Noah and a couple of the neighborhood boys got ahold of a couple of cans of spray paint Monday night and made a mess of a bunch of things in the alley on mom's garage, the neighbor's fence, our garage, and a couple of other places.
To compound things, when I asked Noah about it he lied and said he didn't do it, even though he came home covered in spray paint.
So... little dude is on lock down for a while. He's lost most of his game and youtube priviledges, he's grounded from playing with his friends, he can't play with his nerf gun, etc.
He lied to me about it, and Ken, Isaiah's mom (Isaiah is the one who finally told the truth), and even the police officer that Ken called out to investigate.
Jesse is going to help him scrub the paint off where he can.
I wanted to let you know so that his consequences carry over to your place - no games, etc.

Me: Any legal repercussions? Vandalism, etc.?

Her: No, thankfully. Although there's been a lot of tagging in the neighborhood lately and I'm concerned that they're going to come knocking on my door now if something else gets damaged.

Me: Ouch.

Her: (Part of the reason he's grounded from being out of our sight)

Me: Noah's a good kid. In all honesty, some of his friends worry me.

Her: He does have some Netflix privileges still, mainly because I have to work and he'd drive me crazy without something to keep him occupied.
He is a good kid. The other kids are too, for the most part. I think they just got carried away - we all do stupid ........ at that age. The big deal for me is that he didn't fess up. I know why - he was afraid of getting in trouble - but I explained to him that because he lied it's now so much worse.

Me: Where were the parents of these kids while this was happening?

Her: If he told the truth he could fix it.
We all thought they were just in the alley playing like they always do.
Part of having the freedom is having the freedom to make mistakes, ya know?

Me: Okay, I'll be sure to carry over the restrictions.

Her: He mentioned to me when I told him that I was letting you know that he was afraid you'd lock him in his room and not feed him. That sounded to me like an exaggeration, but I wanted to make sure that wasn't what you had in mind.

Me: Lol I'd not do that. Lol

Her: I didn't think so.

Me: So, no games or media?

Her: Right. His phone is on total lockdown - he should only be able to make calls and send messages and a few other things.

Me: We rarely let them outside without supervision, so we'll keep that going.
Who's property got damaged?

Her: Like I said, I've given him netflix to give him something to keep him occupied. And I've always told him that family time is always free - he'll never have board games or doing stuff with mom taken away from him.
Mine, Mom's, Mandy's (Max's mom), and Mom & Ken's next door neighbor.

Me: Ouch.

Her: And, technically, the City's... there are a couple of orange city barrels out there that they got.
They're also losing the basketball net... Ken is taking it down.

Me: I know you realize you could have had some serious liability.
Did you explain that to Noah?

Her: Oh yeah, in spades.
I made him cry. I felt like sh**, but I think he needed it.

Me: Crying can be good, sometimes.
What color was it?

Her: White and like a teal green.
He's going to be feeling the pain of the consequences for a while. We are getting the PS4 this weekend, and he has a $75 gift code that he can't use.
He was pretty upset about his nerf gun being off limits too

Me: I don't know the law that well, could Noah have been charged with destruction of property or vandalism?

Her: Probably. The cop didn't seem too concerned though.
Which was a frustration in and of itself. The cop was pretty laid back about it. I wanted him to scare the bejeezus out of Noah so he'd get the picture. LOL

Me: I'd have had the cop cuff him and put him in the cruiser to sweat a little.
Lol

Her: Well, at the time we talked to the cop, the truth hadn't come out from Isaiah yet. But Noah had spray paint all over his legs, and I knew he had something to do with it but he wasn't budging on his story that it wasn't him.

Me: I know he's young. I did dumb things like this at his age. Started stealing out of yard with the Hutch***** boys and the Vander*****. I could have had a record before 12, easy.
We even vandalized a few cars.

Her: Yep.

Me: John Sp**** set a fire to cover up a break-in and was arrested for arson. Tim ******* was arrested for raping a neighbor girl. I think both were between 13 and 14 years old.
All out running the neighborhood, unsupervised.
I don't think Noah would be that bad....
But all it takes is the wrong friends to get Noah involved with something that could be very bad.

Her: This sort of feels like a criticism of the freedom I let him have... am I reading this wrong?

Me: These kinds of things scare me a lot sometimes. I was lucky.
I don't mean to seem critical. Just worried. I was a little boy running around with friends at one time. Those times were when we did things that could have gotten us locked up, charged, etc. Those were also the times we were introduced to drugs. I just worry because of personal experience.
The drugs scared me. Stealing and vandalism didn't for some reason.
Sean **** made me the look out when they got high off paint, glue, and eventually pot, and then acid (microdots).
We just have one chance at this. It worries me. That's all.
Then, if course, there's, Billy (my brother who was killed in a hit and run at 7).
All happened outside of the loving supervision of a parent. Freedom is important. But it can also be deadly. Sometimes it's hard to find the balance.
I'm just a dad.
I worry. And it will get worse as he gets older.

Her: There are risks, always. There are risks in going for a ride in the car. Part of adulting is understanding what the risks truly are and not letting them overpower what's best for a kid's learning and development. I'm not upset that he made the mistake of spray painting stuff. I want him to make those kinds of mistakes, now, where I can correct them and show him the consequences.

Me: They used to get high under the tracks on Linden Ave.

Her: You have benefited from the mistakes you made. But we can't just talk those lessons to Noah, he's got to know them.

Me: It could have been worse.
There are some things I wish my mom had kept me from. The night John set the fire....my mom said I couldn't go. I really didn't want to because John was with Neil, and he had beat me up a couple times and would take my bike and ride it, me begging for him to give it back. I'd have been implicated in the arson, had I gone.
I was 13.
But had mom not cared, I'd have gone for the pressure.
Teal green??? Yuck.
Billy died crossing Drummer to meet older kids on the way to Bomburger park. Mom was in the shower, told him he could go, but be careful.
That fast. It was over.
I just worry.
I'll enforce your restrictions. I'm glad it was only painting a few things. Lol
I'm glad no serious trouble came out of it.

Her: Yeah, I think it's a good lesson

Me: Me too.
I'll talk with him. But I won't lay into him. Sounds like you already gave him the riot act.

Her: It was a calm and measured riot act - from me, then Jesse, then my mom came over.

Me: Poor guy, probably scared out of his mind.

Her: It may have been calm but I think he would have rather I yelled and gone crazy.

Me: Calm can really affect him. He steels himself against crazy.
Calm also sends the message more clearly.
Thanks for giving me the heads up.

Her: Yeah, of course!

Am I being too protective? Is she being too disengaged as a parent? What are some of your thoughts on the above?

I need some food for thought as I ponder this.

Sincerely,

A Loving Father

Brother,
I could take this a whole kinda different ways...
But, let me just take this oppertunity to say, this sounds to me a lot like God's plea to every child of God to get under the protection of a God fearing, Holiness loving, Pastor. That will watch for your soul.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls.....

Thank you, I will use this down the road, when a saint tells me they've outgrown their need for their pastor. When they say all those rules and restrictions aren't necessary.

Jeremiah 3:15
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.....

Sincerely,
Elder Barrel

[houston]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

Brother,
I could take this a whole kinda different ways...
But, let me just take this oppertunity to say, this sounds to me a lot like God's plea to every child of God to get under the protection of a God fearing, Holiness loving, Pastor. That will watch for your soul.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls.....

Thank you, I will use this down the road, when a saint tells me they've outgrown their need for their pastor. When they say all those rules and restrictions aren't necessary.

Jeremiah 3:15
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.....

Sincerely,
Elder Barrel

What a joke.

[mfblume]

Personally, I do not agree with freedom to make mistakes. I raised four kids and none them ever got in trouble with law.

We taught our kids to stay away from friends who get in trouble like that. If they were with someone like that, it ended. Period.

[mfblume]

The bible teaches us to teach our children. It did not tell us to leave our children to the whims of the world and the school of hard knocks to teach them. That's the philosophy of the world. It's the same error, I believe, as letting kids choose what religion to follow.

The human heart is a garden of wild weeds. It must be disciplined and "gardened" from those weeds. If we let kids learn for themselves, they will get i trouble with the Law. They just will. My kids went to church until they chose for themselves at 18. Only one veered away after that age, and yet he never got into crime of any sort.

Your kids in their situation may not have you and your ex-wife both agreeing in serving God. Not sure. So that's different. Yes, we all learn from hard knocks. But leaving children without teaching and without forbidding certain friends is totally leaving them to the whims of the world. And that's not the bible way. That's how I see it, anyway.

Joshua 24:15 KJV And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

My children are in my house.

But I understand it's different when the parents are not together and both serving God.

This is just me... but I recommend it for all.. but I would have my children know they attend church with me when in my home in a similar situation like yours.

[n david]

Not to worry you, but Will and Jada Smith had some interview years ago where they talked about allowing their children the type of approach your ex-wife is doing with your son.

Have you seen Jaden Smith?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

Brother,
I could take this a whole kinda different ways...
But, let me just take this oppertunity to say, this sounds to me a lot like God's plea to every child of God to get under the protection of a God fearing, Holiness loving, Pastor. That will watch for your soul.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls.....

Thank you, I will use this down the road, when a saint tells me they've outgrown their need for their pastor. When they say all those rules and restrictions aren't necessary.

Jeremiah 3:15
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.....

Sincerely,
Elder Barrel

LOL

Good stuff.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Personally, I do not agree with freedom to make mistakes. I raised four kids and none them ever got in trouble with law.

We taught our kids to stay away from friends who get in trouble like that. If they were with someone like that, it ended. Period.

Amen.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The bible teaches us to teach our children. It did not tell us to leave our children to the whims of the world and the school of hard knocks to teach them. That's the philosophy of the world. It's the same error, I believe, as letting kids choose what religion to follow.

The human heart is a garden of wild weeds. It must be disciplined and "gardened" from those weeds. If we let kids learn for themselves, they will get i trouble with the Law. They just will. My kids went to church until they chose for themselves at 18. Only one veered away after that age, and yet he never got into crime of any sort.

Your kids in their situation may not have you and your ex-wife both agreeing in serving God. Not sure. So that's different. Yes, we all learn from hard knocks. But leaving children without teaching and without forbidding certain friends is totally leaving them to the whims of the world. And that's not the bible way. That's how I see it, anyway.

Joshua 24:15 KJV And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

My children are in my house.

But I understand it's different when the parents are not together and both serving God.

This is just me... but I recommend it for all.. but I would have my children know they attend church with me when in my home in a similar situation like yours.

After everything that happened in our church my ex became an avowed atheist/agnostic and decided that living for "God" wasn't what she desired. That makes it real difficult. I'm still trying to live for God. Not perfect, but trying. I don't blame God for everything that happened. But she's of a different opinion.