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11-09-2019, 12:59 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
It's not a physical kingdom if it's the way it is now in the Spirit, just with us having immortal bodies. We're doing it now in bodies. They ll just be immortal then, with no sin, death or sinners.
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...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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11-09-2019, 01:46 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Unites States
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
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Originally Posted by coksiw
Nicodemus, do you believe in Oneness?
The Son of God is a term referring to the incarnation:
Luke 1:35 KJV - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
In Revelation He is still the Son of God:
Rev 1:6 KJV - And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 2:27 KJV - And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
If the glorified body doesn't exist anymore, then there is no incarnation, there is no Son of God anymore, there is no Lamb. If the incarnation doesn't exist anymore, you either have to believe in the existence of the Son as a separate God that doesn't need an incarnation to be (unitarian, trinitarian, etc...); or the whole Bible, after the ascension of Jesus Christ, refers to Christ as a allegory or a past event before Pentecost, including Revelation.
Don't you think an empty grave tells you a clear loud message from God? Why do we need that testimony for?
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I think you need to step back and read the thread again. I believe in ONE God! However, you don’t need the Flesh of Jesus to consummate the ONE God Law.
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Jesus, Teach us How to war in the Spirit realm, rather than war in the carnal, physical realm. Teach us to be spiritually minded, rather than to be mindful of the carnal.
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11-09-2019, 01:46 PM
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New User
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northwest Zion
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
I’m moving to Saskatoon.
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“Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos.”
-Homer Simpson
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11-09-2019, 01:48 PM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
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Originally Posted by diakonos
I’m moving to Saskatoon.
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__________________
Jesus, Teach us How to war in the Spirit realm, rather than war in the carnal, physical realm. Teach us to be spiritually minded, rather than to be mindful of the carnal.
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11-09-2019, 01:52 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,154
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968
I think you need to step back and read the thread again. I believe in ONE God! However, you don’t need the Flesh of Jesus to consummate the ONE God Law.
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However you do need the flesh to have a son of God. That which was born of Mary was called Son of God due to the birth. If there's nothing born of Mary there is no son of God.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Last edited by mfblume; 11-09-2019 at 03:47 PM.
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11-09-2019, 02:31 PM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
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Originally Posted by mfblume
However you do need the flesh to have a son of God. That which was born of Mary was calledd Son of God due to the birth. If there's nothing born of Mary theyre is no son of God.
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Very True.
__________________
Jesus, Teach us How to war in the Spirit realm, rather than war in the carnal, physical realm. Teach us to be spiritually minded, rather than to be mindful of the carnal.
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11-09-2019, 04:45 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968
Very True.
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So, how can there be A Son if there is no flesh? We're the body and he is the head, like Eve was Adam's body. But Adam did not lose his personal body when his wife was called his body. And the Son is in heaven.
The sercond coming wasn't the day of Pentecost, for Paul looked for the second coming decades after the day of Pentecost.
Oneness doesn't mean there can't be two manners of God to manifest just because the number two is used. It's not two persons. The father and Son are two witnesses Jesus said. So is the use of the number two to be taken obliviously without the distinction of two persons, to say a person is not oneness?
John 5: 31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Oneness is one person.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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11-09-2019, 08:38 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968
The reason for this thread, was because where I Pastor I’m around 60%-70% of people believe in a physical kingdom that will come to pass in the near future. Jesus will come in his physical fleshy body and oversee a physical kingdom, matter of fact if they follow all the religions law, they may even have they’re own planet and become a god over it. I give bible studies at our local jail, and one of the men brought this up, how as Jesus ascended into heaven in his physical form, that’s the way we shall be as well. We may not have blood flowing, yet as you are now you will be in heaven, yet spiritualized. I wanted to see what others thought on this matter.
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We are in the kingdom now. Jesus is ruling and we are involved ruling with Him, treading on serpents and scorpions and fighting with the sword of the word of God. This is how the Kingdom will continue after the resurrection, except there will be no sin,devil, demons or sinners. And the kingdom is not going to become physical any more than it is now, with us involved having physical bodies. We wil have immortal ones at the res'urrection. And we will see Jesus in His physical immortal body, without the kingdom becoming physical.
Adam had dominion over the earth without a physical kingdom.
So, what do you mean by physical Kingdom, and why think whatever that means has to be the case if we believe Jesus will be with us in a physical body?
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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11-09-2019, 08:51 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968
I would argue that the whole existence of Jesus was thing short of miraculous. Born of a women, without the seed of man. Confounded the religious leaders of the day with his wisdom and knowledge. Was able to call men back from the dead ( John 11), was able to calm the sea by his word ( Mark 4:39), healed a blind man with his spit and dirt, ( John 9:6). With that said I’m not refuting anything Votivesoul said, I’m just trying to clearify some things. Those miracles I mentioned are just a couple to what he has done, read John 21, all the books cannot contain the things Jesus had done, that’s amazing. So, why would we expect anything else with his resurrection from the dead? Of course he wasn’t bleeding, he bled on the cross, the blood has already taken effect! TJJJ said it best, the resurrection was proof what the Holy Ghost will do for us, he showed the spiritual in physical way. Just like his death and burial, he was our example. Just as other graves where opened and men appeared before many, Jesus did the same. Death, and the grave had no power on him, yet he is SOURCE of all power.
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Jesus did supernatural things without having a supernatural body. However, his body from the tomb was supernatural and spiritual. Like Vitivesoul said, SPIRITUAL is contrasted from NATURAL, and natural means SOULISH and is not even pertaining to whether or not the body is physical.
And why can you not connect the resurrection when we get immortal bodies with the restoration of the Kingdom Adam lost, when he was supposed to rule over the world and lost that position? Do you not see Christ's work as a restoration of the kingdom Adam lost?
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As he appeared before the disciples in the room, or make himself not known to those walking on the road. He did the same before he resurrected. He passed through the crowd (Luke 4:30)
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Passing through the crowd is not the same as appearing form thin air in a location.
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Jesus defied gravity while he walked on the water (Matthew 15:26), look what happened with the transfiguration, (Matthew 17).
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The transfiguration was a VISION.
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
But you have a point about Him ascending and defying gravity as he did when he walked on water.
However, that does not negate the fact that he arose with a spiritual body that was immortal.
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
What part of Jesus died when He died? Whatever it was, it was what DIES NO MORE since he was raised. I see no other answer than to say that HIS BODY will die no more. Immortal body.
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What I’m trying to say is, God had a goal (if I can say that) in mind, to come to earth as a sacrifice, he was the Lamb Abraham talked about in Genesis, he was the spotless lamb from the foundation of the world. John 4:24, God is a spirit, and if we believe in ONE God manifested in the flesh... (1 Timothy 3:16) then we must believe Jesus is a spirit because (John 10:30) “I and my Father are one.” The flesh had one purpose, to die on a cross. That’s it! It’s not some trophy in heaven to show off, Jesus went back to spirit form at his ascension. Why, because God is a Spirit, no space can contain him, his spirit is the only spirit that can work by himself, we as humans we need help, demons work in clusters, but Gods spirit works alone. If you want a physical body of Jesus, look at the church. We’re many members but ONE body.
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Jesus is certainly a Spirit, yes. He was a Spirit when he was on earth at the same time in a body. He is eternal Spirit, so if there is a manifested presence in flesh, or not, that does not remove the fact that HE IS ALWAYS A SPIRIT. It's just that HE ALSO was in a body of flesh while His SPirit filled the universe. All you refer to with Jesus being a Spirit does not negate the fact that He has a BODY right now, because He was a SPIRIT at the same time He walked on the earth in a body.
But like I said, the flesh has more than the purpose of dying. He is LAST ADAM. And that means as a HUMAN BEING he rules the world.
Revelation shows Him as the one that died and lives again forever, which can only refer to humanity in which he was manifest because deity cannot die.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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11-09-2019, 09:07 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,018
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Re: Glorified Flesh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
Hebrews 5:7,
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Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
The days of Christ's flesh strongly suggests that there were and are days in which Christ has no flesh. The timeframe for having flesh is while He was here on earth. The timeframe for when Christ has no flesh is when He is not here on earth, that is, not here presently in a physical body.
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I think you are making an unwarranted leap here. The context shows "the days of His flesh" is referring to the time in the Garden prior to His arrest. In any event, in the days of His flesh does not require He has days with no flesh. It means rather when He lived as a mortal man, subject to the limitations of "flesh". Flesh as used in Scripture doesn't solely mean physical body. It rather is a generic term for human beings. "The God of all flesh" doesn't mean the God of all physical bodies, it means the God of all mankind.
Since we know he had a material body after His resurrection, since Paul said the body is resurrected as a spiritual body, and since the Bible says absolutely nothing about a change in His nature AFTER He resurrected, we can conclude that "in the days of His flesh" doesn't mean He now no longer has a personal body.
And furthermore, if in the days of His flesh requires He had days without flesh, those days without flesh need not be after His resurrection or ascension, but could very well be the days BEFORE His incarnation. Thus, His prayers occurred AFTER He incarnated, and not before, thus this passage is actually yet another blow to trinitarianism and binitarianism.
In any event, there is nothing in Scripture that says Jesus has no personal body, nor are there any passages that require that to be so, and there are numerous passages which DO require Him to still be human with a body.
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