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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #371  
Old 09-10-2022, 11:18 AM
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good samaritan good samaritan is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

When you do anything as unto the Lord. Visit the sick, buy someone groceries, give offerings that is an act precedented on faith. I am not suggesting that we give to receive, but we do it to follow his teaching. I am simply saying that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Therefore, my reason for saying God honors faith. I was not making the statement exclusively about tithing, but about giving generally. Again, if you are thinking that I have an agenda, say so that way we can discuss. I don’t know what “all” tithe teachers have in mind when they say God honors faith. I just know I meant it in general.

Hebrews 11:6 is how I define faith. James says faith without works is dead. So by interpretation, when my faith in Jesus Christ is carried out, it will be rewarded.
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  #372  
Old 09-10-2022, 12:22 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

It's far more simple than what some are trying to make it out to be. God blesses people who give in faith according to principles laid out in the bible. And not every fits into a box that detractors from their giving of tithes think they're in, making their arguments against tithing futile.

IT's far more simple than what most think. Give tithes in faith and God will bless. Period! It's really getting legalistic to split hairs and break down what tithing was in the Old Covenant compared to day, as though it's demanding you cannot even call it tithing if it's not strictly the way the Law said it was. Irony is in trying say we're not under law, but using legalistic detailing and strictness to say what tithing should be if we were under law when we're not giving tithes in the way law stated to begin with, nor even think to do so!
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  #373  
Old 09-10-2022, 12:47 PM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
It's far more simple than what some are trying to make it out to be. God blesses people who give in faith according to principles laid out in the bible. And not every fits into a box that detractors from their giving of tithes think they're in, making their arguments against tithing futile.

IT's far more simple than what most think. Give tithes in faith and God will bless. Period! It's really getting legalistic to split hairs and break down what tithing was in the Old Covenant compared to day, as though it's demanding you cannot even call it tithing if it's not strictly the way the Law said it was. Irony is in trying say we're not under law, but using legalistic detailing and strictness to say what tithing should be if we were under law when we're not giving tithes in the way law stated to begin with, nor even think to do so!
I believe you're correct.

Just making an observation.

Genesis 28:20-22
20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


What scripture did Jacob have to base his trust on?
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  #374  
Old 09-10-2022, 01:38 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
When you do anything as unto the Lord. Visit the sick, buy someone groceries, give offerings that is an act precedented on faith. I am not suggesting that we give to receive, but we do it to follow his teaching. I am simply saying that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
That was not the context of your original words "God honors faith", but I won't argue that. They are your words, and you appear to be retracting them.

Quote:

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
That verse is not in the context of giving, but finding God himself.

Quote:
Therefore, my reason for saying God honors faith. I was not making the statement exclusively about tithing, but about giving generally. Again, if you are thinking that I have an agenda, say so that way we can discuss. I don’t know what “all” tithe teachers have in mind when they say God honors faith. I just know I meant it in general.

Hebrews 11:6 is how I define faith. James says faith without works is dead. So by interpretation, when my faith in Jesus Christ is carried out, it will be rewarded.
When people give, and then they end up receiving from somewhere else which appear to be a miracle, and you or tithing teachers say "God honors faith", they are speaking clearly of God giving back because the tither gave expecting to receive it back somehow. That's prosperity doctrine my friend, whether you want to recognize it or not.


I do not think you have an agenda, just trying to show you the error you are in, not only regarding tithing but also regarding giving "in faith" (again, not in faith as in doctrine or believer of Christ, but as in "God will bless me back financially").

Last edited by coksiw; 09-10-2022 at 01:50 PM.
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  #375  
Old 09-10-2022, 01:40 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
It's far more simple than what some are trying to make it out to be. God blesses people who give in faith according to principles laid out in the bible. And not every fits into a box that detractors from their giving of tithes think they're in, making their arguments against tithing futile.

IT's far more simple than what most think. Give tithes in faith and God will bless. Period! It's really getting legalistic to split hairs and break down what tithing was in the Old Covenant compared to day, as though it's demanding you cannot even call it tithing if it's not strictly the way the Law said it was. Irony is in trying say we're not under law, but using legalistic detailing and strictness to say what tithing should be if we were under law when we're not giving tithes in the way law stated to begin with, nor even think to do so!
Sounds like prosperity doctrine, like the "evangelists" on TV, but instead on the pulpit.

Anyway, we prefer to be faithful to the Word of God than inventing nonsense, and falling into error. We prefer to listen to the elders that wrote the Scriptures than listen to the elders that brought traditions. We prefer to submit to the Word of the Lord, instead of submitting to thin air reasoning. Good luck.

Last edited by coksiw; 09-10-2022 at 01:49 PM.
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  #376  
Old 09-10-2022, 02:12 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I believe you're correct.

Just making an observation.

Genesis 28:20-22
20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


What scripture did Jacob have to base his trust on?
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"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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  #377  
Old 09-10-2022, 02:30 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I believe you're correct.

Just making an observation.

Genesis 28:20-22
20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


What scripture did Jacob have to base his trust on?
Hi Nicodemus
I haven't seen you in a while. I was wondering if something happened to you. Everything OK?
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  #378  
Old 09-10-2022, 02:44 PM
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good samaritan good samaritan is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
It's far more simple than what some are trying to make it out to be. God blesses people who give in faith according to principles laid out in the bible. And not every fits into a box that detractors from their giving of tithes think they're in, making their arguments against tithing futile.

IT's far more simple than what most think. Give tithes in faith and God will bless. Period! It's really getting legalistic to split hairs and break down what tithing was in the Old Covenant compared to day, as though it's demanding you cannot even call it tithing if it's not strictly the way the Law said it was. Irony is in trying say we're not under law, but using legalistic detailing and strictness to say what tithing should be if we were under law when we're not giving tithes in the way law stated to begin with, nor even think to do so!
This is what I have been trying to say all along this thread. Some people can be guilty of becoming as wrong as the people they stand against. Telling someone they can’t tithe or teach the topic of tithes, can be just as legalistic as telling someone that they must tithe.
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  #379  
Old 09-10-2022, 03:12 PM
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good samaritan good samaritan is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
That was not the context of your original words "God honors faith", but I won't argue that. They are your words, and you appear to be retracting them
Please copy and paste what I said. Your issue is not what I said, it is what you feel I meant.

The context was a pastor gave up his salary because he felt it was unscriptural and the Lord blessed. I said I know of testimonies from a tithing perspective where God blessed tithers. Both scenarios prove God honors faith, this is the context I said it. You seem to be reading unto what I have said and I am literally dumbfounded because I don’t know what you are meaning.



Quote:
That verse is not in the context of giving, but finding God himself.
Sure it is. We give of ourselves everyday we seek God.Another scripture says We Present ourselves a living sacrifice. What is a sacrifice, it is something we have that we want to give to God. The scripture says, “present ourselves”, that means everything we are is for God.




Quote:
When people give, and then they end up receiving from somewhere else which appear to be a miracle, and you or tithing teachers say "God honors faith", they are speaking clearly of God giving back because the tither gave expecting to receive it back somehow. That's prosperity doctrine my friend, whether you want to recognize it or not.
That is not anything I have taught nor expressed on this thread. God blesses people for acting on their faith. Not faith that I am going to manipulate God into blessing. It is faith that God deserves everything good in my life and I am going to give in everything.


Quote:
I do not think you have an agenda, just trying to show you the error you are in, not only regarding tithing but also regarding giving "in faith" (again, not in faith as in doctrine or believer of Christ, but as in "God will bless me back financially").
It is not an error to believe God rewards faith. I don’t think God owe’s me anything, but I am thankful for his goodness. I give and teach to give because I want to. Tithing is just a systematic way for me to give monetarily. It is not a law, but just a scripture based example.

Last edited by good samaritan; 09-10-2022 at 03:14 PM.
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  #380  
Old 09-10-2022, 03:44 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
This is what I have been trying to say all along this thread. Some people can be guilty of becoming as wrong as the people they stand against. Telling someone they can’t tithe or teach the topic of tithes, can be just as legalistic as telling someone that they must tithe.
Some are not listening, brother. What they are speaking against is not what you are saying, but what some WANT you to be saying because they can shoot down their concept of what is wrong, but not what you or I are actually saying.

I caught Coksiw in a distinct example of NOT EVEN READING WHAT I SAID when this chat went on:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coksiw
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
BARTERING was a form of commerce in those days along with money similar to us today
False. I showed you money was use a lot as well, so the comparison you are using is misleading.
Misleading? I distinctly and plainly said bartering was used ALONG WITH MONEY. For you to say money was used as well, is to plainly indicate that you did not carefully read what I said when I wrote, "ALONG WITH MONEY."
When people have been drilled into one form of belief that they are solely fighting, and they do not actually read what you are saying, they do not address your thoughts, but rather just that stuck-in-the-mind thought that no one here is actually proposing.

I distinctly said that bartering was a PART of their commerce, and later clarified that by saying the other part was CASH and MONEY, it was given a response as though I never said CASH was involved as well. And so Coksiw said, "I showed you money was use a lot as well, so the comparison you are using is misleading.." NEVER did I EVER say MONEY was not involved, too.

Without people properly addressing your points, you cannot relate to them your thoughts.

One time one brother and I on this forum discussed the calendars of timelines for the years that comprise Daniel's 70 weeks on until the point when Jesus arrived in time. The brother mocked my timeline that I used and quoted it and said that it distinctly said something as ridiculous as saying Jesus born December 25. What he failed to notice was that in the ebook that I told him about that included the timeline I agreed with, the author INCLUDED the alternative timeline that this brother agreed with. And the actual one that included Dec. 25 as the birth day of Jesus was that which HE AGREED WITH! He thought it was mine, since he thought the entire book did not quote his as well as the one I agreed with. He failed to notice that HIS TIMELINE said that Jesus was born Dec, 25!

It was actually several DAYS, maybe an entire WEEK, that I repeated over and over again that it was the TIMELINE with which HE AGREED that he was citing, as quoted in the book as error. I saw he was not responding to my note, and then he started continuing his mockery of MY timeline, that was actually HIS, and FINALLY HE SAW WHAT I WAS TRYING TO TELL HIM! He was so thrilled that he thought he had me in a corner with some ridiculous timeline that said Jesus was born Dec 25, and he kept mocking me for it, that HE DID NOT REALIZE IT WAS HIS TIMELINE that he had been arguing with me was the correct one. Think of it!

But when he saw what I said and actually TOO TIME TO READ MY WORDS, he went silent for a week or so. (The chat should still be on this forum!) Then he backpeddled and boy (!), did I ever hold his feet to the fire for that one! Woohoo!


This is what is happening here with you from SOME, not ALL. But Coksiw, for sure. And yet these guys never responded to me with their exegesis of 1 Cor 9 when one of them said THEY WOULD! But the red herring mockery will continue while they ignore their flubs. Again, I am NOT speaking about all who disagree with us here. It's just two of them, and Coksiw is one. No offence intended.

So, you made your point, and I made mine. But, thankfully there are others reading that will greatly benefit these words!
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"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."

Last edited by mfblume; 09-10-2022 at 04:38 PM.
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