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  #11  
Old 10-17-2022, 03:37 PM
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jediwill83 jediwill83 is offline
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Do you understand what sort of mess this would have been, if we don't have original signatures? The GREEK JUDEAN writer is translating the Aramaic for his DIASPORA readers.




The GREEK LUKE was pointing out that the Roman Judean, Shaul Paulus, addressed his countrymen in their temple liturgical language. Also Jesus addressed Paul in the same liturgical language. Hebrew Wasn't being spoken by the people en masse, Aramaic, was spoken around Judea. Greek was the language of the entire Eastern Roman Empire. Latin the language of the Western Roman Empire. Letters sent all over the Roman Empire, from east to west were all in Greek. Greek was the language of commerce. Theophilus ben Ananus who the books of Luke, and Acts are addressed to, has a Greek Roman name. What you are proposing is that we don't have the words of the Apostles, we certainly don't have the words of Jesus Christ. What you are saying is that we have a Greek translation, not in the patrician Greek either, but of common Greek. All translated from Hebrew, or Aramaic? They quote the LXX because the LXX was their go to Bible. It was also the ONLY Bible which the lion share of the DIASPORA JUDEANS would of been reading. The Gospel was meant for the ENTIRE KNOWN WORLD. Therefore he needs be written in the language of the ENTIRE KNOWN WORLD. Not a language which wasn't even spoken outside of the temple, and certainly not a language that was regional.



If I told this about paragraph to any minister of the NOI, Mormon (not the kids in the white shirts), Rabbi, Imam, Atheist, Roman Catholic, or Orthodox apologist. They would be all over it, because your little post teaches what they believe. That the New Testament is a bad copy of an original which we no longer have.

Good God from Zion

See, there were these golden tablets that convieniently disappeared so you gotta trust us.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2022, 03:52 PM
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

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Originally Posted by jediwill83 View Post
See, there were these golden tablets that convieniently disappeared so you gotta trust us.
Reminds me… an older gent sealed in the Mormon temple told me that Nauvoo or maybe some other made-up Mormon word is Hebrew. After I contested, he angrily stated, “It is the original Adamic tongue. We tell you gentiles that it is hebrew.”
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2022, 04:10 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
So, you believe that the New Testament is a translation of manuscripts we no longer have? Wow, there are Atheists, Muslims, Rabbis, and Mormons who love to hear that.
I didn't say that. Keep your laugh to yourself. "Translating" is not only from manuscript to manuscript, but in this case I'm obviously saying it is from Jesus spoken words to written Greek.

You are a pretty aggressive with your answer, ending your post with a mocking. Did I offend you or something?
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2022, 04:11 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Do you understand what sort of mess this would have been, if we don't have original signatures? The GREEK JUDEAN writer is translating the Aramaic for his DIASPORA readers.




The GREEK LUKE was pointing out that the Roman Judean, Shaul Paulus, addressed his countrymen in their temple liturgical language. Also Jesus addressed Paul in the same liturgical language. Hebrew Wasn't being spoken by the people en masse, Aramaic, was spoken around Judea. Greek was the language of the entire Eastern Roman Empire. Latin the language of the Western Roman Empire. Letters sent all over the Roman Empire, from east to west were all in Greek. Greek was the language of commerce. Theophilus ben Ananus who the books of Luke, and Acts are addressed to, has a Greek Roman name. What you are proposing is that we don't have the words of the Apostles, we certainly don't have the words of Jesus Christ. What you are saying is that we have a Greek translation, not in the patrician Greek either, but of common Greek. All translated from Hebrew, or Aramaic? They quote the LXX because the LXX was their go to Bible. It was also the ONLY Bible which the lion share of the DIASPORA JUDEANS would of been reading. The Gospel was meant for the ENTIRE KNOWN WORLD. Therefore he needs be written in the language of the ENTIRE KNOWN WORLD. Not a language which wasn't even spoken outside of the temple, and certainly not a language that was regional.



If I told this about paragraph to any minister of the NOI, Mormon (not the kids in the white shirts), Rabbi, Imam, Atheist, Roman Catholic, or Orthodox apologist. They would be all over it, because your little post teaches what they believe. That the New Testament is a bad copy of an original which we no longer have.

Good God from Zion
Also, please you don't need to yell with all caps. Please try again, and then I'll read your post. BTW, if you can't behave please leave the thread I started.
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2022, 05:00 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

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Originally Posted by jediwill83 View Post
See, there were these golden tablets that conveniently disappeared so you gotta trust us.
Same thing goes for those who believe in an original Hebrew/Aramaic New Testament. There absolutely no Hebrew/Aramaic manuscripts predating our original Greek manuscripts.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2022, 05:05 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

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Originally Posted by diakonos View Post
Reminds me… an older gent sealed in the Mormon temple told me that Nauvoo or maybe some other made-up Mormon word is Hebrew. After I contested, he angrily stated, “It is the original Adamic tongue. We tell you gentiles that it is hebrew.”
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2022, 05:08 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
I didn't say that. Keep your laugh to yourself. "Translating" is not only from manuscript to manuscript, but in this case I'm obviously saying it is from Jesus spoken words to written Greek.

You are a pretty aggressive with your answer, ending your post with a mocking. Did I offend you or something?
I wasn't before, but I'm sure offended now.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2022, 05:15 PM
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
I have a hard time believing Jesus quoted something in Greek to the chief priests and scribes at the doors of Jerusalem, or to any Jewish crowd in Palestine.
Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
I didn't say that. Keep your laugh to yourself. "Translating" is not only from manuscript to manuscript, but in this case I'm obviously saying it is from Jesus spoken words to written Greek.
Well actually you did.

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
What likely happened was that the Gospel writer translated it from Aramaic to Greek, which in turn, attests the LXX "translation/interpretation" of the Hebrew text in that verse, or that the LXX has a variant reading we don't have, and it is what Matthew testified Jesus quoted.
I'd love to hear you explain this to Rabbi Tovia Singer.
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  #19  
Old 10-17-2022, 10:04 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Why?
I explained it right there. I see plenty of evidences that they spoke Aramaic in Palestine, and yes, the Hebrew Scriptures was read in the synagogues, which then was explained in Aramaic.

Quote:
Well actually you did.
Well, it wasn't what I meant. What I meant was that Jesus spoke in Aramaic those words, and the Gospel writer translated it into Greek to write it on the Greek autograph. I'm not saying the Gospel was originally written in Aramaic (as some say).

Quote:
I'd love to hear you explain this to Rabbi Tovia Singer.
Well, an example is "Deuteronomy 32:43". We didn't have the variant reading containing the words quoted in the NT in Hebrew, but we had it the LXX. And then the DSS revealed that there was indeed a Hebrew variant reading that contained those words.

Do you use the LXX for the O.T. for your reading, study, and preaching? What are you thoughts?
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  #20  
Old 10-18-2022, 12:36 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Dead Sea Scroll translation

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post

Well, it wasn't what I meant. What I meant was that Jesus spoke in Aramaic those words, and the Gospel writer translated it into Greek to write it on the Greek autograph. I'm not saying the Gospel was originally written in Aramaic (as some say).


Some of Christ's statements make little or no sense unless He was quoting the Greek scriptures. His argument against the Pharisees that they worship God in vain is directly from the Greek, not the Hebrew, as is His "perfected praise" quotation of the Psalm. These are not examples of the Gospel writer translating Aramaic into Greek, but are solid evidences that Jesus Himself knew the Greek version and used it in His preaching and apologetics.
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